Clarkston Sunshine

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:02):

Sue Wylie said OK, it’s 7 o’clock. I’m going to call the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:09):

Wylie said all rise and say the Pledge of Allegiance.

Pledge said.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:30):

Wylie said on our agenda, we have Item #3, which is a roll call, and Jonathan [Smith, city manager], would you take the roll call, please?

Sue Wylie, Laura Rodgers, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Mark Lamphier, Ted Quisenberry were present.

Peg Roth was absent.

Wylie said OK, thank you. So, everybody’s here but Peg Roth.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:54):

Wylie said Item #4 is approval of the agenda. I need a motion to approve the agenda.

Motion by Forte; second Casey.

Wylie said any discussion from council.

No discussion

Wylie said any from the public.

No discussion.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said OK, the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:15):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make a public comment.

No comments.

Wylie said OK, hearing none, we will close public comments.

Agenda Item #6, FYI (Video time mark 0:01:45):

• • MML Training for Newly Elected Officials (page 3/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said moving on to Item #6, FYI. We’ve got an MML, Michigan Municipal League, training for newly elected officers. And everybody has it in their packet, so if you’re interested, there’s both virtual and in-person training options. And I guess there’s nothing else to say about that.

Wylie said oh, before we move on with the meeting, I did want to say, I asked Smith about this, and (to Tom Ryan, city attorney), Wylie said I don’t know if Smith talked to you about this. Ryan said yes. Wylie said I think we need to address the fact that, why we are sitting here having a meeting with the original council members.

Ryan said yes, thank you. So, the reason that is is because as the charter says in state law, until a vote is canvassed by the Oakland County Clerk’s Office, the current council stays in place. The election just was last Tuesday. Of course, I understand that certain events are happening that maybe Angie [Guillen, temporary contract clerk] will talk about, that we’re hopeful by the first of next week, they’ll be, the votes will be tabulated and canvassed and finished. And they’ll be, they’ll be, whoever won will be determined. Especially in our case, it’s a little more difficult because right now there’s just a bunch of numbers and they’re going through the write-in ballots to figure it out. So, every community in the state is in the same position. Until a vote is certified by the county, it’s the, the current council stays in place. That should be taken care of next week by the election, official results of the election. So, this is still a sitting and duly empowered city council for the city.

Wylie said so, even though the charter says, was it second Monday? Ryan said right, but it also says, I’m sorry, but it also says a catch-all after the votes are canvassed and certified. Wylie said does it say that? Ryan said we’re subject to state law for that. Wylie said OK. Ryan said yeah. Wylie said all right. Ryan said yeah. So that’s why. You’re still all here.

(To Guillen and Smith), Wylie said either of you want to address this or say anything else? Guillen said I do. So, the challenges that are leading to the lengthy time for the official results are as follows. And this is given with the recent passage of Proposal 22-2, which was the biggest constitutional change we’ve had since 1963. MOVE [Military and Overseas Voter Empowerment Act] ballots, so those are military or overseas voters, have an additional six days, including the weekend to return their ballot, to be counted. So, if they’re in the field, for example, if they’re in combat, they still have those additional days. Or if their ballot got stuck at one of the metroplexes and it’s there, but it’s stamped by election night at 8 p.m., it’ll still be counted. And so, with that six days after the day of election, so November 5th would have took us to November 11th. But because of the holiday, it’s taken us to November 12th.

Guillen said and so, with that, too, the second caveat is signature curing. And these are all the, these are just a couple of the things that were in the proposal. Signature curing, so if your signature doesn’t match your ballot, we generate a letter from the qualified voter file to send to the resident to let them know their signature, their ballot is being rejected and their signature doesn’t match. So, they have until, it was last Friday at 5 p.m., and we were here in the office, to cure that signature. And so those are with Michigan Compiled Law 168.766, 168.759a, and the Michigan Constitution Article 2, Section 4. So, I just wanted to give that because there were some things that are going on with that.

Guillen said there’s a dedicated team at Oakland County who goes through each individual write-in tape and looks at the name to determine a valid write-in. So, it could be T. Smith, Tom Smith, Thomas Smith, etc. And there were over a thousand opportunities for write-ins, as a write-in candidate in that. And so, there’s an open meeting that goes along with that. The Board of Canvassers starts the next day after the election at 9:00 a.m. and anyone can go there and do that while they’re canvassing. So, they also do have until November 19th to get those results over to the Secretary of State for those to be official results.

Wylie said OK. Thank you. That’s a lot. So even without us having all these write-ins, there were still other things that would have slowed it down. Guillen said these are the other canvasses. At least until today. Military overseas voter until today, signature curing until last Friday at 5 p.m. Wylie said you call it signature curing? Guillen said signature curing, C-U-R-I-N-G. So, our cure, signature cure, C-U-R-E. So, if my name doesn’t match my ballot, we generate a letter to say, hey, it doesn’t match. You need to basically come in and prove that and sign that letter. Wylie said OK. So that’s something that would be sent to your house? Guillen said yeah, it would be sent to the person. Wylie said the voter’s house. Guillen said the address on file in the qualified voter file with the Secretary of State. Wylie said OK. All right.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions.

Lamphier said I have a question. So, when the voting is finalized, the newly elected will immediately be on the council, is that right? Wylie said as I recall. Lamphier said OK. Wylie said we vote, we get sworn in, right. Ryan said yeah, right. In the next meeting, they’ll be at the first order of business. They’ll be swearing in of the new council members. Lamphier said OK. Wylie said before the meeting even starts. Lamphier said right, OK. (To Ryan), Wylie said right. Ryan said yes, correct. Lamphier said OK.

(To council), Wylie said anybody else. Questions?

No questions.

Wylie said public, any questions or comments on this.

No questions.

Wylie said thank you very much for all that.

Quisenberry said is the county going to notify the candidates or the city. Guillen said so, the county is going to notify the Secretary of State with the official results. But they’ll notify us as well.

An unidentified man (Michael Moon?) said I have a question for Guillen. How often is it that the signature doesn’t match and what’s the main reason for that? Guillen said so, maybe when they were a child and they first got their driver’s license, they signed differently than now that they do as an adult. Moon said that was my suspicion. Guillen said we had three and I had one and then the other two were younger adults. It doesn’t really matter the age, but neither one of their signatures matched. And so, we really have to be diligent about that and make sure. Moon(?) said I know my own signature does not look the same as it did ten years ago. Guillen said right. Moon said because of my hands. Guillen said well, we do have, so clerks are given specific educated trainings on how to signature cure and what to look for in someone’s signature. Moon(?) and Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said did you, did anybody else have something else to say. Smith said I was just going to say as soon as we get the results from the county, to Quisenberry’s question, we will send those out, so everybody knows. Both the existing council here and the new members that ran. Wylie said OK.

Rodgers said can I ask, just a question in general, two questions that I have been asked by multiple people. One is, for future charter amendments, can we write something into our own charter that requires like a public forum before an amendment to our charter can go on to a ballot. Ryan said no, because it’s controlled by state law. Rodgers said OK, that’s what I thought. Secondly is, do we as council, didn’t we get to approve what went on the ballot with that, with the marijuana charter amendment? I don’t recall being able to do that with this one. Ryan said no, we tried to add a heading, but the court rejected it. In this we just didn’t have the time to work on, work on the heading of it because it came in, it was all kind of late and rushed. Rodgers said those were the two questions that, like, you know, what was on the ballot. Like who came up with that, and why didn’t city council have a say in that? And like it just kind of sparked my memory that we did talk about the marijuana one. And then secondly, shouldn’t any amendment to our charter be met with at least some explanation to the public as to what it truly means and be given an avenue to ask questions, which really didn’t happen. Wylie said OK, thank you.

Lamphier said I have a question that kind of goes in with that. Any change to the charter, any amendment to change the charter, is it a 51% majority vote? Ryan said correct. Will change that. Ryan said yes. Lamphier said is there any possibility of maybe discussing, I don’t know if this is even possible, to ask for a supermajority to change the amendment? To change the charter, I’m sorry. Ryan said that would be a charter amendment. I have to look at that. I mean, I think there are other supermajorities. I mean, I don’t know what it would be, 60% or 67%. Lamphier said yeah, that’s what I’m thinking. Ryan said you know, maybe it’s possible, but you would have to ask for the charter amendment. Lamphier said I’m just thinking it might be worth discussing and thinking about anyway. You know, if we’re going to change our charter, that’s a big thing. And I think it should take, you know, maybe a supermajority, you know, two-thirds by the public to change it. It’s just something to think about and discuss maybe later.

Wylie recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said as I recall from reading that proposed amendment, there were at least three places, maybe four, that did require a supermajority of the council. Ryan said council. Right, five votes. Casey said five votes instead of four. So, it’s possible.

Wylie said OK, anybody else.

No additional comments.

Agenda Item #7, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:11:00):

• • City Manager Report for November 12, 2024 (page 4/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, moving on to Item #7, which is a city manager’s report. And Smith has some statements on here. (To Smith), Wylie said do you want to talk about it.

Smith said it’s just a statement that I’m very passionate about. I’m very thankful for our election committee. This was, this election, as you know, was very contentious country wide. But it was also here in Clarkston. And we had a lot of concerns, and as a result, Bihl, and then when Guillen joined us, were just on top of things so thoroughly. Bihl, as you know, stepped up to be the deputy clerk. She’s not here tonight, by the way. She’s in the hospital right now with pancreatitis. Wylie said oh, no. Smith said so, we’re concerned about Bihl, but hopefully everything’s going to work out well there. We’re staying in touch with her. But I do want to convey my thanks to Bihl on all the early investigations that she did, just looking at every possible thing that was out there and just educating herself and myself on the many steps that go into an election.

Smith said when Guillen came on board, she validated everything that Bihl had done, and then added to it, of course, found many other things that we needed to be working on, and we’re so thankful Guillen was here because it just made a world of difference. But between Bihl doing all the legwork up front and Guillen coming in to just kind of, you know, at game time close the game out, it was an amazing tag team effort between the two of them, and they really just did such a phenomenal job. This is a high-stress election, by far the most since I’ve been here, and to be without a clerk was very concerning. So, I’m just very, very thankful for the whole election team that’s listed here, but in addition, especially Bihl and Guillen for everything they did. So, I’m very thankful to that team. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie asked Smith if he wanted to say anything else. Smith said no. (Nancy Moon raised her hand.) Wylie said no, hang on, I’ll get you. Wylie asked Smith if he had anything else. Smith said no.

Wylie said council, any questions or comments.

No comments.

Wylie said really, it’s all election thank yous.

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon for a comment.

Moon said I just wanted to thank what Smith said. This is the first time I’ve ever worked in an election, and there’s a lot. There’s a lot that needs to be done, and Guillen and Bihl and Smith all stepped up to the plate to help those of us who are just doing it for the first time, so thank you. Smith said you’re welcome.

Guillen said I do want to mention something, if I can. Wylie recognized Guillen for a comment.

Guillen said so, I just wanted to explain the following were the challenges that we were up against with strict time constraints. We had to get backup encrypted B drives through Harp InterCivic. That’s the creator of the tabulators. The board of canvassers approved ballot bags for storage and retention. These are all the things that we needed for this election. New toner for the voter assist terminals. We were still on the old toner that first came with the machine. Watermark paper for the voter assist terminal. And this is a terminal where you can go up if you need a little extra assistance to create your ballot yourself. A new update to our modem through Oakland County. Backup batteries for the tabulators. Identification posters in English and in Braille, so we’re required to have both. Printer bag to protect the printer for the voter assist terminal. A tray extender for the voter assist terminal. And I just wanted to thank Brandon Township as they let us borrow one because, due to time constraints, we couldn’t get one shipped here fast enough. Thumb drives for the laptop. A new laptop as the current laptop that we had was so old we couldn’t program the election software to that. Updated secrecy ballot sleeves for absentee voting. Updated absentee voter envelopes as required from the United States Postal Service. Plastic sleeves to hold for voter directions. And updated in-person ballot voting secrecy sleeve to protect the integrity for the voters who are feeding their ballot through the tabulator. And I just really wanted to thank council for the opportunity to make this a successful election. And then the team here at the city, Smith, Bihl, Greg [Coté, treasurer], and our very talented election inspectors. We made it happen in a two-week turnaround time; that’s almost unheard of. So, for all of these things, including shipping to get those, we got some of the backup drives through FedEx. And twenty minutes later, I was having them programmed to the county. I left and went right over because when I told him that we got them, he said, you better be in the car right now. So, I just left and went on the road. So, we made it happen, and it was successful. And I’m grateful for the opportunity to be here. (Multiple council members thanked Guillen.)

Wylie said I was impressed. I don’t know when, but Bihl was talking about even when she was on vacation, she was studying and learning and pulling stuff up. Guillen said yeah.

Wylie said OK. Anything else on election? And thank yous.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said not election but thank yous. Wylie said OK. Quisenberry said while we’re on that, the last meeting that we had, we had the audit report given to us. And we didn’t really much get a chance to look at it until it was in front of us and listening to the presentation. I took it back and was looking at it and trying to understand it a little bit more. And after sitting in the budget committees that we did earlier and making all these projections, and with Coté out there coming up with these numbers and these projections, and now then going back and comparing them, and his were projections on what he’s thinking it’s going to be. And for him, just as an example, our fund balance, I think he was $2,000 off. It was amazing how close he was with his projections to what the auditor was then confirming. And I just thought a big hand out to Coté for everything he does and how well he does with that. Wylie said all right. Thank you. Thank you, Coté.

Agenda Item #8 – Consent Agenda (Video time mark 0:17:06):

• • 10-14-24 Final Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 5/57 of the council packet)
  • 10-17-24 Final Minutes, Special City Council Meeting (page 7/57 of the council packet)
  • 10-28-24 Draft Minutes, Regular City Council Meeting (page 9/57 of the council packet)
  • 11-12-2024 Treasurer’s Report (page 12/57 of the council packet)
  • 11-04-2024 Check Disbursement Report for the Period 10-01-2024 to 10-31-2024 (page 13/57 of the council packet)
  • Thomas J. Ryan, P.C., October 2024 Invoices (page 21/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK, moving on to Item #7 [#8] is the consent agenda. By the way, I like how you print this up. It’s big letters. I like this. Consent agenda includes final minutes of the October 14th, 2024, regular meeting, final minutes of the October 17th special meeting, draft minutes of the October 28th regular meeting, treasurer’s report for November 12th, 2024. And for this, I need a motion to approve all these items on the consent agenda. And then if there’s any discussion, we can have that.

Motion by Rodgers; second Forte.

Wylie said is there any discussion or questions?

Wylie said I actually have one question. Let me pull it up. It’s on Ryan’s bill. Oh, gosh. I never remember these things. (To Ryan), I think it’s the first page of your bill. Ryan said OK. Wylie said so, it’s after all the financial stuff. And for October 24th, 2024, review correspondence from city manager and phone call to the city manager regarding proper form for civil infraction matters. Wylie said and I guess Smith too, is this for people? Well, I guess, what’s it for? Ryan said it’s for the new code enforcement. Wylie said that’s OK. That’s what I thought. Ryan said we didn’t have any books. We didn’t have any (unintelligible) books. Wylie said oh, OK. Ryan said because we hadn’t written any in a while. So, they changed the format. So, we need to get some new ones. Wylie said OK. Smith said we’re working with the courts, Oakland County Court District 52 up here, to get the proper books that will be recognized by the courts. Wylie said OK, great. Thank you.

Quisenberry said that’s what most of the aligned items are in the second report, is correspondence with the judges and the deputies and that sort of stuff? Ryan said well, that’s with tickets that are issued, traffic tickets that are issued. And I try to find out. I get a copy. I mean, I don’t write the tickets, and I try to get and talk to the deputies as to what the disposition is, if we can save them a trip to court and whatnot. So that’s all. We don’t write, as you know from the lieutenants here, they don’t write many tickets, but they write some. Quisenberry said and not traffic? Ryan said yeah. Some other tickets too, but most of these are traffic. If somebody gets a traffic ticket from a deputy, it’s going to involve work from you? It may, if they want to go to court. I mean, most of them get paid or whatever. Quisenberry said oh, I see. If it’s not a civil, if they have a formal hearing, then you have to go to court. Ryan said or it’s a misdemeanor, correct. Quisenberry said yes. I got you. Ryan said we don’t have many, but we have a few.

Wylie asked Quisenberry if he was OK. Quisenberry said the other observation I’d like to make is on the first page, or the first statement you gave, we’re looking at expenses. Wylie said from Ryan. Quisenberry said yes. Yes, from Ryan.

Quisenberry said so, just under $500 having to do with a FOIA request from Mrs. Bisio. We were hoping that was not going to be constant. Casey said it is constant, as I understand it. Ryan said it’s calmed down, but there were some issues around the ballot proposal that were triggering things. Smith said right. This FOIA request was pertaining to the ballot proposal and what documentation we had received and what kind of communication that there might have been inside the office relative to that proposal. So, there was a lot of back and forth, and then there was a second wave after we answered the first wave. There was a second wave of questions. So, Ryan has consulted on this, and actually this special FOIA attorney that we’ve engaged with, Carlito Young, he will also have a bill in this time period for some work that he did to assist us.

Rodgers said what are we charging now for a FOIA request? Smith said right now, we are not charging. We haven’t been charging at all. Rodgers said I thought we talked about that when we were going to. Smith said we did, and we’re working with Carlito to find the exact documentation we need so that there are no disputes afterwards. It’s in the FOIA Act that we can charge. Smith said it absolutely is there, and Carlito has reassured us that he will support us on this effort. He, in the meeting we had with him, and Ryan has said this as well, is that we need to charge for a FOIA request. Rodgers said what’s the goal to start, like first of the year? I think that would be a very fair point to start, yes. Rodgers said because it’s costing $95 an hour, which is pretty cheap actually. From Ryan doing us a favor, charging us that. But that’s still adding up. So, it’s their choice, anybody’s choice. Anybody can ask for anything. But we at least need to recoup some of our costs that we’re paying out. I don’t know if this all goes electronically, or if we’re paying for paper and all that kind of stuff too. Smith said these are all electronically. Three clerks have tried, have gone down this path. We submit the charges, the anticipated charges, that you have to get approved before you actually do the work, that they’re willing to pay those charges. And only to be pushed back upon. They’re fighting, you can’t charge for this, you can’t charge for that. This is illegal, you can’t do this, you can’t do that. So, we need to have more stringent guidelines on what we can and can’t do. Because three clerks have tried this and failed.

Ryan said I think it was kind of a perfect storm, because of the ballot proposal and the interest in that by certain folks. That they were doing plenty here just trying to, not only with the election, but with this stuff. So it was, hopefully, you know, it’ll be better first of the year, hopefully.

Quisenberry said but these recent FOIAs regarding the election notwithstanding, this issue was brought up and addressed five, six months ago, and it was my understanding at that time we were going to start charging. And why we’re not, it is very disappointing. And Rodgers mentioned something, we need to do something to start recouping some of these costs. And the only thing I would change with that is say all of them. Every nickel that we’re entitled to, the ledger that the Act tells us allows us to charge somebody, we should charge that full amount, and not anything less. Other places are doing it, it isn’t that hard, and it’s very clear on what it is you can charge for.

Wylie said I can understand, though, if you’re getting a lot of pushback, especially if there’s a lot going on in the office with the election, why that was not, this was not the time to get started. I don’t think it’s, I think the request from council to really start charging was around the time that Catherine Ashley left. I don’t remember how long ago that was. Maybe it was four or five months ago. It was in the summer. Smith and Rodgers said in August. Smith said she left at the end of July, first of August. Wylie said OK. Rodgers said but we can shoot for January 1st. Smith said that’s very fair. I’ll re-engage with Carlito and all of them. (To Smith), Rodgers said thanks.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said yeah, I was just going to ask some questions because I’ve never done a FOIA myself. So, the form that you’re talking about putting together, is that like when like me as a layperson like were to FOIA the city, I would have to fill that out, and it would say like how much is this going to cost and like what I’m asking for specifically? Smith said the requester just sends in what they’re seeking, the information they’re seeking. And the city clerk or whoever’s doing, the FOIA coordinator, let me put it that way, would put together the estimate looking into what would have to be done to get all the information that’s being asked for. If it’s in your email inbox and you just have to search for, you know, topic X, it’s fairly easy to do, and that’s going to be a fairly low-cost FOIA request. But if it means going through all the paper files going back to 1980, that’s very time-consuming. Forte said yeah. Smith said so, it’s not always the same answer. It can be very involved. If there are people outside the municipal office, commission members or commissioners or whatever, and we need to get their input, we put out a request to them and they tell us, well, this is going to take me some time to find this, and we have to roll up all these hours. And then you determine who is the lowest-paid employee that could do the work. Forte said OK. Smith said I don’t have to go to Carson’s salary. I mean, he couldn’t do the work. But the lowest-paid person in the office that could hypothetically do the job, that’s the hourly wage that we charge. You have to put all this into a spreadsheet. As Quisenberry says, it’s very straightforward. The math is not terribly difficult, but it’s what can you and can you not charge. What will stand up in court? And that’s why I want Carlito’s help. If I were to submit this, will this stand up in court?

Forte said and then, so as, like, the person who, like, made the request, would I then approve that estimate? Smith said yes. Forte said and then what if it goes over, like? Smith said well, you would pay half down, half down deposit, and then if you decide to go ahead with it, you give me the deposit, and then we’ll go do the work. Forte said OK. Smith said and then we come back and say, well, it turned out it was another three hours, so the bill has changed a little bit. Here’s the balance due. If they say, no, I’m not going to pay it, then you don’t get the documents – Forte said OK – (continuing), Smith said until you’ve paid the balance. Smith said my understanding is there is an ability to change, though. When you actually got into it, and I’ll verify this with Carlito and I know Ryan, but you get into it and you realize, well, I had to do some additional work that I hadn’t anticipated, and so the bill has gone up a little bit, but the bottom line is here is the cost. Do you want to pay it?

Forte said and then for like the FOIA clock that we keep facing, where it’s like you have to get it done by a certain amount of time, would that start when the estimate is written or when they accept the estimate? Smith said when they accept on that, yeah. Because if I should write the very first or second day after I get the FOIA, put that estimate together and give it back to the requester and say, here’s the estimate, do you want to proceed? And then they sit on it for two weeks. That’s not my problem, and I shouldn’t be dinged for that. So, the clock starts when they say yes. Forte said OK. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, thank you. Smith said and if it’s at all complicated, as Carlito has said, we should be asking for a 10-day extension. Forte said OK. If it’s just a couple documents I’ve got in my email inbox, no, we’re not going to ask for an extension for that. I got one today that was not from Mrs. Bisio. I answered it today, and it was this very simple one. We got it together and sent it out. It actually turned out to be a denial, but still, it probably took me an hour and a half to do it. Wylie said that’s an easy one? Smith said that was an easy one.

Forte said what’s a denial mean. Smith said it means we don’t have the documents, and I’m stating, I’m signing a certificate saying I certify, I do not have these documents on site. Quisenberry said or the information they’re asking is exempted. I can’t get it. Forte said OK. Sorry, I didn’t know. Smith said no, these are good questions. It’s healthy for council to know what’s involved. Forte said yeah. Smith said and we take very seriously a denial. You don’t want to say, no, I don’t have this, because it makes it easier for yourself when it’s in fact in the file. No, you have to be very careful about what you deny. Forte said OK. Smith said this case was they wanted information about an accident that occurred at Kroger’s. Obviously, it wasn’t in my jurisdiction, but I still had to put all the proper paperwork together and respond appropriately, or we could be sued. So, I was very careful and dotted all the i’s and crossed the t’s. It can be a very laborious task, and that’s why many municipalities have a dedicated person, bigger municipalities, of course, not much larger than us, but just to focus on this, because it can be very time consuming. Forte agreed.

Wylie said Guillen had something to add.

Guillen said I was going to piggyback on top of him. You can also charge if they want paper copies, color copies. You can also charge for employee benefits, the employee that’s doing that work. And then, like you said, you got an e-mail. The next day is considered the day number one, so you have five days to respond, and then you can also add, like you said, that additional ten days to complete whatever request is being made. Those are just some other things that are included in our FOIA. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said any other questions or comments from council on the consent agenda, which we still have to vote on, or FOIAs?

Quisenberry said one of the things that last year, it’s in this packet here, about the MML new councilperson seminars they put on, I went to that, and they focus very, very heavily on FOIA and open meetings. Wylie said yes, they do. Probably – (interrupting Wylie), Quisenberry said 80% of the class was on those, and they went over. Casey said what was the second one? Wylie said open meetings act. Quisenberry said and it was very valuable. It for council members or council elect ones to go, but we should highly recommend it, especially just for those two items. Wylie said I’ve actually gone there one weekend. It was not for newly elected officers, but just for people on council. I was a council member then, and that was intense. But it goes all through FOIA, open meetings act, budgeting, almost anything you could think of they talk about. It was virtual, so I didn’t have to go anywhere.

Wylie said so, we have a motion and a second. Rodgers made the motion; Forte seconded to accept the consent agenda.

Motion to accept the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (Video time mark 0:32:35):

Item 9a – Resolution: Purchase of Crossing Flags for North Main Street and Depot/East Church (Video time mark 0:32:38):

• • Resolution – Road Crossing See-Me Flags (page 25/57 of the council packet)
  • See-Me Flag Starter Kit, $199.00 (page 26/57 of the council packet)

Wyle said onto Item #9a, Resolution, Purchase of Crossing Flags for North Main Street and Depot/East Church.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and before we have any discussion, I would like to have somebody make the resolution and somebody second.

Motion by Rodgers; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said and now is there any discussion first from council?

Rodgers said we’ve talked about this a lot, and I don’t know what else to say other than it continues to be a problem. I understand that there was a major — I’ve heard rumor that it was a fatality. I don’t know that that is true, but that’s how stories go. At Washington and Holcomb, correct? Smith said correct. The traffic situation continues to get abominable. It’s fast-moving. The speed limit is whatever it is, it’s not being held to. I did see that the sheriff put a new speed recognition flashing thing right before Washington, which hopefully is helping. But I don’t know what else. This was, you know, just something that I had come across from other towns, cities that use this. Wylie said she has used it herself in other places. Wylie agreed. Rodgers said so, I don’t know. I feel like it’s worth a try. If MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation] is not going to come to our meetings, is not going to talk to us, we talked about a petition, how to go about doing that, and that is a goal for the new year. But short of that, I don’t have any answers, and yet we continue to have people come to every meeting saying that they’ve almost got hit by a car, myself included. So common sense is not being used, but people driving, they’re not out to get us. They’re just not thinking, and they’re trying to hit lights because they’ve been backed up on 75, and they can’t get around town, and it’s just not a good situation. So, I don’t know what else. If anybody has any great ideas, it would be so nice to have something else in place.

Wylie said well, let’s focus on this tonight, at least for now.

Wylie said anybody else have comments or questions on council on this resolution.

Casey said I have doubts that it would be effective.

Wylie said I’m 100% behind them. I thought they worked wonderful, and I’ve got pictures of them doing it. I thought it was a great idea.

(To Casey), Rodgers said I don’t know, whether it would be or not. You know, it’s just what is happening now is not effective. Too many people almost getting hit by cars.

Lamphier said I agree that, you know, it’s a problem. We all know that. And I think that maybe this isn’t a solution, but I think it’s worth at least attempting. I would rather be proactive than waiting for fatality. So, I think it’s worth a try anyway. Maybe this isn’t the long-term solution, but I think it’s worthwhile to at least give it a try. I don’t see myself crossing the street with that flag, personally. Whoever wants to, you know, by all means.

Rodgers said well, maybe if it happens often enough. I’m just hoping that then people are, I don’t know.

Lamphier said we’ll see how it goes.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

No comments.

Wylie said anybody in the public like to address this resolution.

No comments.

Wylie said there aren’t many of you. (To Smith), Wylie said I never heard fatality, but what did happen with that accident at Holcomb and Main? It was early in the morning, I understand. Smith said it was still dark out, I understand. Somebody was turning left off of Washington onto southbound Holcomb. Wylie said OK. Smith said southbound Holcomb. Wylie said yeah. And they lost sight of this person in their (unintelligible), presumably. The walker said that he had eye contact with the driver, but then it still happened. So, he ended up, he did have to be taken away by ambulance. He did break a leg. So, he has a broken leg, but it wasn’t a fatality. It’s still concerning. I agree with Rodgers. The number of events is just continually increasing, and certainly I hope with the construction on I-75 being shut down for the winter that we’ll have at least a temporary reprieve here before next summer starts all over again. And it will be telling. If that’s the frustrated aspect of these drivers that are just so anxious to get to their destination and they’re late because of I-75 construction, is that what’s driving some of this? And we see that calm down, well, I don’t know what we can do about it, but it’s just more information.

Smith said and speaking of more information, I think the more that we do, there’s going to be no silver bullet here. So, the more we kind of step into this, it’s just, it’s more information that we don’t have today, and hopefully it will, eventually, we’ll find the right solution and it may be some combination of things. I would have to agree with Lamphier. I don’t see myself out there in the middle of the road with the flag. It’s just not my personality, but who knows? It may be a game-changer, and I think for $500 or even less, for $199, it’s worth the money. Wylie said minimal investment, and maybe we save one person from a serious injury. So, I assume the person who broke their leg was a local resident, and if they were walking. Smith said they were walking, but it’s not somebody I know. Wylie said OK, OK.

Casey said what time of day was it? Smith said like 6.30 in the morning. Casey said still early. Wylie said it was dark, yeah.

Wylie said any other discussion on this resolution.

No discussion.

Wylie said then we will need a roll call.

Forte, Lamphier, Quisenberry, Casey, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said so, the resolution is adopted. Thank you, everybody. Oh, I like at the end. (To Smith), Wylie said I don’t know if you wrote this up, but at the very bottom of where the picture is, it says, peace of mind. Smith said yes. That was from their website. Wylie said oh, OK.

Agenda Item #12 [sic], New Business (Video time mark 0:41:05):

Wylie said OK, we are at Item #12, new business.

Item 12a – Discussion: Election Results (Video time mark 0:41:06):

• • Voting Statistics (page 27/57 of the council packet)
  • Ballots Sent and Return Summary – 11/05/2024 (page 28/57 of the council packet)
  • Ballots Sent and Return Summary – 08/06/2024 (page 29/57 of the council packet)
  • Ballots Sent and Return Summary – 02/27/2024 (page 30/57 of the council packet)
  • “I Voted” Sticker Sheet (page 31/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said discussion, election results. We’ve had some discussion, but we’ve got lots of statistics, and (to Guillen), are you going to be addressing this? Guillen said sure, I can. Wylie said thank you.

Guillen said so, the election results we had, absentee voting statistics for the city, and I gave the last three elections, 2/27, 157 ballots sent, 138 returned for a total of 87.9%. In August, we sent out 312 ballots, 155 returned for 49.68%. And then the general election, November 5th, 281 ballots sent, 271 returned, so 96.44%. Early voting statistics, which I thought was phenomenal for our city, in February, we had only three voters at early voting. In August, there was only two voters. And then in the general, November 5th, 95, with early voting. So, that is huge compared to what we’ve had in the past. And then the 2022 census report states that we have 775 residents. The qualified voter file on the Secretary of State’s website we use reflects that there were 747 residents registered to vote, and of those, 665 residents voted in the state general election. And so that gives you a percentage there at the end, which is 89%. And then what residents really thoroughly enjoyed was the “I Voted” sticker contest. And I just included a copy so you can see all of them. But the top one, of course, was the werewolf. And then along with the kitty, I voted in the lighthouse. So those were like the top three. But residents really loved it. They were able to have a choice. It puts a little fun in elections. And then we had tremendous turnout, so I just wanted to thank the residents for voting.

Forte said this is kind of on topic, but my best friend is stationed in South Korea and she had me keep some for her. And so, like, yeah, this is so great. Wylie said they were very popular. I was outside, and the people, that’s, look at the sticker I got. Look at the stickers I got for my kids. People were thrilled with them, and the kids, of course, just loved them.

Rodgers said that’s a great idea. Who came up with this idea? Guillen said so, the Secretary of State had a contest for Michigan, and then children in elementary and high school students were able to submit these designs, and these were the ones that were chosen. Rodgers said that’s so cool.

Wylie said any questions or comments from council on the election results, or the non-results?

Forte said it’s all a secret.

Wylie said anybody from the public.

No comments.

Item 12b – Resolution: Extension of the Contractual Clerk Agreement (Video time mark 0:43:29):

• • Agreement to Hire Contractual Clerk Assistant Through December 31, 2024 (page 32/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said we are on Item #12b, Resolution, Extension of the Contractual Clerk Agreement. And there is an agreement here, and we also have a resolution. I guess I should, should I read this whole agreement? Forte said no. Ryan said you don’t have to. Wylie said that’s okay. Forte said you weren’t asking me. Wylie said no, I wasn’t asking you. We can put your two cents in. Wylie said I will read the resolution, because this we have to have. Resolution for, oh, no, that’s something else. We don’t have a resolution. Smith said no, this is it. Wylie said OK. No, this is it. Okay. So, but we do need a resolution. (To Smith), Wylie said so, I mean, you want to talk about any pertinent parts on here? Smith said I guess I would. Wylie said OK.

Smith said you know, we brought on Guillen to help us through the election, and now it was the initial contract extends through November 18th, I believe it is. I don’t know if you recall. Well, we started this one on the day after that, so this one starts on the 18th, so it must have been on the 17th. (Someone said 16th.) Smith said 16th, right. So, we extended the contract because Guillen has been so, so helpful in the clerk position, actually doing what we need a clerk to be doing is watching for all the clerk-related items that I have been looking for, because I’m currently the clerk, but it’s just impossible for me to have my ear in the ground on all the things that need to be done from a clerk standpoint to remain, you know, a viable city. So, it’s very important that we have a clerk dedicated to watching all those items and not having one has become very apparent. I’m happy to say that I don’t know of any big gaps or any big mistakes, but nonetheless, I’m concerned about not having a clerk on the ground.

Smith said so, I am working on a proposal to hire Guillen as our permanent clerk, and Guillen and I had some discussions relative to this, but that’s going to take a little bit of time yet, and so what I’m proposing here is that we extend Guillen’s contract through 12/31, giving us time to look at a salary study, whether it’s done by myself or whether it’s done by a third party, which is something that’s going to come up next in our agenda here tonight. That remains to be seen who’s going to do the study, but I think we need to do everything we can to hire Guillen on a full-time basis. There are just too many things. Ryan can speak to this. I’m sure there are many, many cases where not having a clerk or having an inexperienced clerk in this world is very dangerous with all the litigious efforts that are going on out there. It’s just very dangerous to not have a qualified clerk in that seat.

Smith said so, I’m very passionate about needing to step up this year. We’ve had three clerks in three years. No offense to any one of the three. They were all wonderful young ladies, and I don’t regret that, but it’s been a training effort, and only to lose them. You train them, they’re here for a year or two, and then they’re on their way because they have credentials that make them valuable in the marketplace. So that is just a never-ending revolving door. The time has come where we need to decide are we going to be a city or not? If we’re going to be a city, we have to be stepping up to the legal requirements of being a city, and that means having a qualified clerk, a qualified city manager, a qualified treasurer. All these jobs have to be with qualified individuals.

Smith said I know I’ve heard many, many times the story of, oh, don’t you know, when Art Pappas was here, and no offense to Art Pappas, I love the guy, and when Art Pappas was here, he was the city manager and the treasurer, and did a lot of the clerk stuff, too. And so how is it, Smith, where one man did all of this, and now, Smith, you’re saying we need three people to do this. It’s the answer to that is one word, the Internet. It’s changed the world. We didn’t, when Art was here, it was all U.S. mail letters. Things came in, it was a slower pace. You just didn’t have the pace. I get, I probably get 100 to 130 emails a day. Art got, you know, a couple letters a day, maybe, I’m guessing, I don’t know. It’s just the pace and all the requirements that the state and the feds have put on local municipalities that you can’t just say, oh, I’m gonna have to get to that next week. I know they wanted it last week, but it’s gonna have to wait till next week. No, you can’t do that. You have to be responding. So, it comes back to the question, do we want to be a city? Because these are the requirements. We cannot have people that worked at McDonald’s last week now being our clerk. It’s just not gonna fly. We’re gonna be sued. We’re gonna pay, and pay dearly, for making a mistake.

And I know you like to say, well, Smith, you can train that individual and we’ll get them up to speed as quickly as possible. And I would certainly do my best to make that happen, but I can’t be, I don’t have eyes in the back of my head. I don’t have the ability to be watching anything and everything that goes on. I just think, and this is kind of a long tangent, and I apologize, but this contract is the start of getting serious about that.

Smith said how are we gonna pay for this becomes a question, and you probably all got that on the end of your tongue. It’s like, Smith, how are we gonna pay for this? Well, my proposal is to reengage the finance committee that worked on the budget. Get the finance committee back together and we sit down, and we explore that very fact. How are we gonna pay for this? We’re not gonna raise taxes. I never, ever, would ever propose that we raise taxes. We have to find a way within our walls, within our resources, to make this work. Will some work slow down? Maybe some of the road work, maybe some of the infrastructure work that we’d love to get done, we wanna get done. I think we’ve made a lot of progress in recent years. But some of that may have to slow down a little bit. But I’m not gonna make that decision. That’s the finance committee. We’ll have to come back together and say, OK, if we have to come up with X amount of dollars to enable us to hire a certified clerk, then we’re gonna have to react and do this. We have to rob Peter to pay Paul, as they say, to find a way to make it all fit in the box.

Smith said so, again, apologize for the tangent, but it’s all background information relative to this contract. Yes, the election is 98% over. There’s still some follow-up work that Guillen and Bihl are working on. But I need to look beyond that now, and I’m looking for the permanent position, that I’d like to find a way to hire Guillen. Her skills are beyond reproach. There’s just no question. She has got all the skills, and then some, and she fits in perfectly with the office. That’s proven well. Her personality is such that we love having her here. So, I’m trying to find a way to make this work.

Smith said so, I’m not asking for tonight for full approval of hiring Guillen at X salary. I don’t know what that number is yet, but I am asking to buy some time, and I have to extend her contract through 12/31, and we’ll take it from there. Also, between now and 12/31, I’ve got a proposal put together with all the i’s dotted and the t’s crossed, and I’ve met with the finance committee, and I can bring this back to the council for your vote, up or down. So that’s my mindset.

Wylie said OK. Typically, I would ask for somebody to make a resolution and second it before we have a discussion, but why don’t we start with the discussion before we go ahead with this contract?

Quisenberry said the contract, we don’t have to take any action on it. Correct? Ryan said no, we’re going to approve the contract. The current contract’s going to expire. This will be an extension of the contract. Quisenberry said yes, so we need to vote on that.

Resolution by Forte.

Wylie said well, let’s just have, you’re going to make a resolution on this particular contract, so my preference would be we just kind of, if there’s any issues, bring them out right now.

Ryan said some of the contract that exists now, this just extends it – Wylie said it just changes the dates – (continuing), Ryan said and it broadens the scope of the activities more. Wylie said oh, it does? Ryan said yeah, well, because the election is almost in the rearview mirror, as Smith said, so it’s going to fit more into the general, like, clerk area now. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said anybody on council have questions or comments on approving this contract?

Quisenberry said and the compensation, it was $7,250, not the $7,500, correct? Smith said correct. Under section 6, there was a typo. $7,250 is, with the holidays, in there, $7,250 was my calculation. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said I have a question. Oh, sorry. Did anybody else? Wylie recognized Forte and said go ahead.

Forte said I was just going to say I don’t think it was a tangent to, like, explain all that. I think it’s really good context for us to have. I agree that if we want to be a real city and continue to be a real city, we need to, like, beef up our staff. That’s the reality. It’s a lot of work. I don’t expect you to be anyone other than yourself. Like, Pappas, or whatever his name was, he’s before my time, obviously, but, like, he did – an unidentified man said his name is on the building. Forte said yeah. Wylie said that stuff, you don’t know the person. Forte said yes. I’m sorry. I don’t know him personally. I’ve heard his name a lot of times, but it doesn’t mean that what you’re doing isn’t enough. Like, I hope you know that. Like, I can’t imagine what you deal with on a day-to-day basis. We only see this portion, and then you guys will give us a little glimpse. Like, I didn’t even know what went into the election until we started getting reports on what the election entailed. So, like, it’s all appreciated. I totally agree with you that we do need to think about these things long-term. In a company, there would be succession planning, and I think it’s something that we need to think about because we’ve got a lot of people who are working here basically out of their goodwill, and that’s happened in the past. And we’ve gotten really lucky with that, but that might not continue to be something that we just get lucky on in the future. So, I think it’s smart to start thinking about what these numbers might actually be in reality. What are other cities paying their employees? And then if we cannot afford to pay those going rates, what does this mean? Do we have someone in the pipeline who is a Smith or a Coté that we know in the community who would like to take on these roles eventually? Because that’s something we should be thinking about long-term because we’ve gotten really lucky in this city. I know some people in the community complain about this and that, but we’re really fortunate to have all of you guys. And like, I mean, I pray that Bihl is good, but like she’s worked so hard over the last few months, like, so, I hope she comes out of this and just takes a long vacation. But that’s all I wanted to say. Smith said well, thank you.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions or comments.

Wylie recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said yeah, I know that nobody wants to raise taxes, but we are under the rate that is permitted by Headlee currently. Forte said what’s Headlee? What does that mean? Ryan said the Headlee amendment. Casey said that’s legislation that caps how much we can tax. Forte said OK. Casey said it’s a limiter on the ability to tax, and it has hurt a lot of communities. My point here is that if we’re going to beef up our staff to levels that are commensurate with what’s being paid other places, it may require a tax increase, notwithstanding your hesitance to do that. I’m not saying we need it right now, but I’m saying that it should be something that we are hoping to consider, depending on what this study finds and what we need to do to get people in here that are going to stay.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

No comments.

Wylie said I assume when you say, do we want to be a city, that’s a rhetorical question because we have no options. OK. And this is, and I’m not looking for an answer now, but it’s something to me that we have to keep considering is if Guillen’s getting paid X number of dollars or so much an hour, how does the rest of the city staff react to that? Because that would make her the highest paid employee. And I don’t know, I mean, you know your staff better. I don’t know how everybody else would react. Like I said, you don’t have to answer it, but it’s something we have to keep in mind as we move forward.

Smith said there is, and this is where the salary study would come in. There is a hierarchy that’s expected in an organization, right? And we would have to look at the whole package. I don’t think the DPW [Department of Public Works] staff needs to be included in that, but the office staff, the four of us, myself, Bihl, Coté, and Guillen would be the four that I’ve proposed, and that’s what we’ll see in the next, I’m not sure if it’s the next resolution topic or not, but that’s what I propose be studied, those four individuals. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said anybody else.

Smith said as kind of a package, because they all go in concert with each other.

Wylie said anybody in the public have questions or comments.

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon for a comment.

(To Casey), Moon said I understand you correctly that we are below what we are allowed in the Headlee Act? Casey said yes. Moon said well, if the finance committee, excuse me, my asthma’s not very good today. Can the finance committee determine if we were at the Headlee Act, just right where we could be, how much additional revenue that’s going to bring into the city, and what that will do to help us out on these budget constraints? Casey said I’m sure that that committee could figure that out. Moon said I mean, to me, I think the finance committee needs to look at that. I mean, we had to do a major overhaul of the library because we have a lot of part-time people, and the state has raised the minimum wage per hour for the next, I don’t know how long, through ‘27 or ‘28. So we had to do a major, you know, budget on our own self at the library. So, I think we need to know what that number is. Because that might solve our problem if we’re paying ahead. Wylie said Coté puts that together. Quisenberry said Coté was on the budget committee, and he would know if we were to say we want to raise one mill, two mill, how much more that will then give us into general fund dollars that we have to pay. But I think this is kind of leading more into discussion of what we’ve got coming here. We just want to approve her salary increase. Smith said right. Wylie said but it’s all together.

Wylie recognized Casey a comment. It sounded like you were starting to talk about something. Casey said I was, but I’m – Wylie said you changed your mind. Casey said I thought better of it. (Laughter.) Wylie said OK.

Wylie said anybody else in the public have questions or comments on this.

No comments.

Wylie said OK, we do need a resolution because this is financial. I guess it’s a resolution to approve the extension of the contract?

Casey said he resolved.

Wylie said I always call him Gary Hanna. I have another friend named Gary Hanna. Casey makes a resolution to approve the agreement to hire contractual clerk assistant through December 31, 2024, at the rate of $40 an hour.

Second Forte.

Wylie said OK. Any other discussion?

No discussion.

Wylie said since it’s a resolution, we need to have a roll call. Smith said OK.

Casey, Forte, Lamphier, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said OK. And the resolution is passed.

Item 12c – Resolution: Contract with the MML Salary Consultant to Conduct a Salary Study (Video time mark 1:02:04):

• • Resolution – Formal Salary Study (page 37/57 of the council packet)
  • Proposal to Conduct a Salary Study (page 38/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said and we are now moving on to Item #12c, Resolution, Contract with the MML [Michigan Municipal League] Salary Consultant to Conduct a Salary Study.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and before we have any discussion, I would like to have somebody resolve.

Resolution by Rodgers; second Casey.

Wylie said and now any discussion from council members.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said I do think that, I’ve heard it a couple times tonight, do we want to remain a city? It is rhetorical because what are our options? If we don’t, if we remain a village, we still have these costs. So, I don’t understand where that comment comes in because we’re going to incur any costs if we go back to being a village – (Wylie made an unintelligible comment) – (continuing), Quisenberry said because there’s village clerks. Well, do you? Wylie said yeah, the, Independence Township would cut a couple out. Quisenberry said that’s all premature until we get the study, and they find out that municipalities, whether they’re cities, townships, villages, are paying their administrative officials 20, 30, 40% more. That’s critical in deciding at least where we’re going to go at first. And I think we need to do it. But we’re going to have, I think, these costs and possibly even more regardless of what we do. Whether we stay a city, whether we go to a village, or whether it’s to contract out to Independence Township. We’re going to have all these expenses still with us. The question is, is now go through this and then see what it says and then decide how are we going to tackle the issue that we have in front of us now. It’s going to cost us more to provide the city services that we are charged with doing. Knowing that, what are we going to do? Are we going to rob Peter to pay Paul in our own budget? Are we going to look at how many mills we need to cover the shortage? Are we going to look at how much, if they’re saying that the Village of Timbuktu pays their clerk 30% more than, and with comparables, responsibilities, then we’re going to look, OK, can we do 30% all at once or can we do something like 15% and 18%? But I do think it’s a great idea to take it back, kick it back to that budget committee with you and Coté and the budget committee and look at it and say, now we know this is what we should be doing to maintain the level of service that is expected of us to run efficiently. So, do the survey and then take that data and factor it all in with everything else that we know, but this is what we almost have to have before we can look forward.

Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said it’s nearly impossible for us to go back to being a village. It requires, it’s been a few years since I’ve heard how it happens, but I believe the biggest stumbling block I heard at the time was it requires a huge percentage of Independence Township’s registered voters to accept us. It was an enormous number, and I don’t remember now what that number was. It was way over 50% of their registered voters or maybe it wasn’t even registered voters, it might have just been the people that voted in the last election, to accept us. And then of course the city itself has to vote.

Quisenberry said that’s not what I was suggesting. I was just using that out there as one of the three possibilities that are out there. Wylie said I think we should just eliminate, it’s not a possibility. Smith said I apologize if by bringing it up rhetorically or introduce you to something that I didn’t really mean to suggest.

Ryan said it’s almost legally impossible. I mean it’s – Wylie said it can’t happen. Ryan said so, it shouldn’t. Wylie said yeah. But you’re in favor of doing this start. Quisenberry said absolutely. That has to be the first step and there really isn’t anything else we can do. (Michael Moon raised his hand.). Wylie said we’re going to get council first. Quisenberry said until we have that piece of information, then we can decide where we want to go with it.

Wylie said anybody else on council have comments or questions on the resolution.

Casey said I agree that this is the first step. Wylie said first step, OK.

Wylie said anybody else.

Wylie said I have to admit I’m very resistant to the cost of it. And I know you have looked at the MML information that they put out every year. And in the back of my mind, I’m looking through this like why can’t Smith do that again? But I do understand it would be probably more valuable, especially putting it all together. But I have a really hard time paying that much money for a study.

Smith said well, let me say that one of the things they do to earn their money is they will call each one of the four here that would be in the study and interview us and ask, what do you do today? Give me a peek into your daily job. And the monthly and annual job if there’s certain things you only do annually, that kind of thing. But they want to know what are you responsible for? Because they’re going to compare that to other cities that they’ve already done studies. They’ve done thousands of these. So, they can look at other cities of our size, of our comparable size, with those same responsibilities. I know somebody said, well, you only work four days a week. Okay, well, I still work 40 hours a week in those four days. But nonetheless, you only work four days a week. You get holidays off, yes? But other municipalities do too. (Interrupting Smith), Rodgers said I think, Smith, that’s why it’s important to have it. Oh, I’m sorry. Wylie said I just want to hear him finish. Smith said it would be a good kind of base level to understand. These are what this consultant that does this for a living. It’s not Smith standing up here and saying, hey, I looked at this spreadsheet and it tells me this. This is an independent third party with many years of experience and a good background and a good reputation. They’re looking at what the city does and what a comparable salary should be for that job.

Wylie recognized Rodgers for a comment.

Rodgers said I was just going to agree with you. I think that it does need to be an independent person that makes it because anything short of somebody independent is exactly what you just said, you know, Smith thinks that he deserves a raise. An independent person is going to show that comparables with comparables. (To Wylie), Rodgers said I agree. The thought of spending $3,500 when we could use that money. Right? It’s kind of like we just said we don’t have enough money but we’re going to spend $4,000, $3,500 to $4,000 to tell us that we don’t have enough money. It sounds kind of ludicrous, but it has to be an independent person in my opinion to make that decision in order to protect you and everybody else in that office. Smith said yes, that’s the conclusion. Wylie said we don’t have to follow the recommendations, but we still (unintelligible) what we paid for.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions or comments on this issue, on this resolution.

Quisenberry said this is a time period. It said three to four weeks. So, we’re talking end of the year before we get the report back that we can then decide at a subsequent meeting after that is OK, now what do we want to do with it? Do we want to hand this all over to somebody and have them research it? And that’s probably the way that it should probably go. Wylie said I’m sorry, I missed something. Hand over? Quisenberry said hand over, hand over all the information that we have on what to do about a, it’s going to be a salary shortage is what it’s going to come back and tell us. And how do we want to now react to that? What are our options? Wylie said and you’re saying having somebody else then step in. Quisenberry said no. Wylie said I thought you said it’s another person. Quisenberry said once we get this, we then use that to decide where we want to go. Smith said with the finance committee doing the legwork, yeah. Quisenberry said exactly, but it’s still beginning of the year.

(To Michael Moon), Wylie said after everyone on council. Oh, you’re okay? Moon said yes.

Smith said more than likely we’ll be pushing year end, and I was going to bring tonight a proposal but in light of the election delays here I need to bring to council a replacement for at least one of our finance committee members. So, Roth falls off so we need to replace her next meeting because then – Wylie said OK. Quisenberry said just remembering Roth got on because Lamphier got off. Lamphier was the initial one and was on the first one. Smith agreed. That was busy. So, we’ll talk about that further in the next committee and next council meeting. Wylie said OK. Smith said and fill in the finance committee so they’ll be ready to meet as soon as we have the results. Wylie said OK. Smith said if you vote on this tonight.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said yeah, that was my next question. When does the finance committee meet or how often? Smith said typically, they don’t start meeting until February to review the budget for the start of the mid-July budget year, but I propose they start in December this time and just focus on this one topic. It’ll save us time when we get to the actual budget because one of the topics we get into in every budget discussion is salaries. We’ll already have that problem addressed but I would hopefully start in December, but it might be the first of the year before we have it. So, I may, and I’m not going to rule it out, may need to come back for another extension for Guillen but we’ll take this one step at a time. Wylie said right. OK.

Wylie said anybody else in public will have any questions or comments.

(To Michael Moon), Wylie said you said you’re okay. Moon said I’m OK. Wylie said OK. All right.

Wylie said then let’s see we have Rodgers made the resolution seconded by Casey and we need a roll call. Smith said OK.

Lamphier, Quisenberry, Rodgers, Forte, Casey, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted.

Item 12d – Motion: Acceptance of M. Luginski Resignation from HDC [Historic District Commission] (Video time mark 1:14:13):

• • Motion – Acceptance of Melissa Luginski Resignation (page 46/57 of the council packet)
  • Lugniski iPhone Email Resignation Because She’s Moving Mid-Month [to Independence Township] (page 47/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #12d, Motion, Acceptance of Melissa Luginski’s Resignation from the Historic District Commission.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said I need a resolution. I’ll make a resolution. Second Rodgers.

Wylie said any discussion from council.

No discussion.

Wylie said from the public. I’m sure we all thank Luginski very much for her many years of her expertise and her help with many people doing work on their houses over the years. And we need a roll call.

Smith said actually this is just a motion. Wylie said oh, I’m sorry it is a motion.

Motion to accept Luginski’s resignation passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the motion is adopted or motion passes. And I did ask Smith that we have the opening posted on the website and publicized as much as possible so we can look at nominations at the next meeting. Forte said great.

Item 12e – Resolution: Free Parking on Small Business Saturday and Saturdays in December (Video time mark 1:16:10):

• • Resolution – Free Parking on Small Business Saturday + Saturdays in December (page 48/57 of the council packet)
  • Parking Revenue Report Showing Average Saturday Revenue of $174.57 (page 49/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said OK. Let’s see. That’s adopted. Item #12e, Resolution, Free Parking on Small Business Saturday and Saturdays in December.

Wylie said if you didn’t see the letter Luginski wrote.

(Wylie read the letter.)

Wylie said OK. Now we have this resolution, free parking on small business Saturday plus Saturdays in December.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I need somebody to resolve.

Motion by Forte; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said any discussion from anybody on council.

Wylie recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said yeah. There are three Saturdays before Christmas and one after. Do we want to include the one after? Smith said the thought was that still, that’s kind of their big blowout sales afterwards, so we still want to support the businesses on that after Christmas Saturday. Casey said all right.

Rodgers said is that a common thing to do. The only reason, I think it’s a fantastic idea aside from the fact that we’ve just had so much discussion over it. Forte said I was literally just thinking. Rodgers said it comes at a bad time. Forte said yes. Rodgers said we’re just saying we have no money and we’re a very giving community, very giving. Is it the right thing to do right now and is it the norm standard for most small, like towns? Smith said I’ve worked on a grant recently with American Express who does a big support of Small Business Saturday, the one after Thanksgiving. They emphasize the really importance of this just over and over and over again. The huge importance that this has for, to recognize small businesses. Now again, that’s only one Saturday out of fifty-two but it’s still, it gets people’s minds working in that you’ve got to support local businesses. They make the community.

Rodgers said is that for all Saturdays or just small, the one after Thanksgiving. Smith said well, the American Express push in their grant program was just the Saturday after Thanksgiving but we know that, we’ve heard this last year, from other small businesses like yeah, and I think this was almost an exact quote, yeah that was great, but then it just died right after that. We did see an uptick on the Saturday after Thanksgiving but then it just died, right, and people didn’t come back. Rodgers said and they think that’s because of the parking. Smith said well, it’s like one excuse I’d like to take away, to be honest is, that just let’s try it. If it doesn’t move the needle, then we can not do it the following years, but I’d still recommend doing Small Business Saturday, but it’s a concern and a frustration that has been presented to me by some of the small business owners like you need to do more for us. The holiday season is 30-40% of our income for the year and we need your support on this. I personally, and I’ve had the ongoing for years now discussion with business owners, restaurant owners, about the frustration that this dollar an hour presents but I have to admit that this is, if this would move the needle and keep our small businesses going in what’s arguably a tough time for small business, then it’s worth it. $872 is small change in the big scheme of things and if it keeps our small businesses going then to me it’s well worth it. I can look them in the eye and say yes, I did what I could do to make a difference. I can’t put a gun to people’s heads and take them into your store and tell them they have to buy something. I can’t do that, but I can try to incentivize it a little bit and so that’s what I’d like to be able to look a business owner in the eye and tell them that. This is one option.

Smith said if they have other things, it’s a question that we ask, the Main Street Clarkson group is getting their feet off the ground here and we really want to survey every business owner and have this discussion with them. What can we do to ensure your success? What extra things could the city do? Is it advertising? Is it banners? Is it lights and parades? What is it that we can do to help you be successful because we don’t want you to leave? We’ve all been there when the stores were vacant stores on Main Street and none of us want to go back to that.

Quisenberry said they’re competing with Thanksgiving and the big box stores have Black Friday. If we just have this, just to help compete a little bit, give them something, then the following Monday Amazon has Cyber Monday. So, they’re sandwiched between two huge incentive-sized days, shopping days, and if there’s anything we can do to help combat that, then – Smith said we owe it to our business owners to do it, to try. If there are other ideas, I’m open to it, but I have not, I haven’t heard much.

Wylie said will there be any promotion for the other Saturdays that there is free parking available. Is Clarkston Main Street going to do anything? (To Cara Catallo), Wylie said do you know about that. Catallo said yeah, so we’re still getting off the ground with our social media presence, but definitely I know Brandon [Still] would put it out there as much as we could, and also I’m sure all of the businesses would, so we would definitely push to encourage that, and through Main Street Oakland County, because they sort of have a hub for all the different main streets in the county. Wylie said you said, I think, at the last meeting, you guys, you’d gotten a grant, and you were going to use it to start a website. Is the website – Catallo said right. It is, yeah. Like, Still’s doing that part, so I’d have to get an update from him, but yeah, we’re in the process of getting that going, but it’s not live yet or anything like that. Wylie said OK. Smith said so, we would have to look at other means to promote this. Wylie said right. (Smith made an unintelligible comment.) Wylie said that banner would have been perfect. Rodgers said yeah, I like that banner. You need to revisit. Wylie said I think it was risk of life or something.

Forte said I just wanted to say, like this would help support the Christmas Market in terms of parking. Wylie said oh yeah. Forte said that was something that I like, I really want to continue to promote the Christmas Market and any like little local events that we have to kind of, that brings outer Clarkston that feels like they’re part of downtown Clarkston, and like I grew up in Davisburg, but I always thought that I grew up in Clarkston, you know what I mean, so I think it’s a great way to include like young families. Like we’re parking for a few hours. It makes a difference, you know. I like that that included this.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

No comments.

Wylie said anybody in the public.

No comments.

Wylie said we’re down to three people now. One left.

Wylie said OK, so we need to take a vote on this.

Wylie, Rodgers, Quisenberry, Lamphier, Forte, and Casey voted yes.

Wylie said OK, the resolution is adopted.

Item 12f – Resolution: Installation of Concrete Curbing on W. Washington and Robertson Ct. (Video time mark 1:25:03):

• • Resolution – Installation of Concrete Curbing to Address Erosion Issues (page 51/57 of the council packet)
  • Sidewalk Replacement Bid Summary – Updated August 2024 (page 52/57 of the council packet)
  • Orozco’s Cement & Construction Estimate (page 53/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said sorry, now, we have a resolution. I’m sorry, Item #12f, Resolution, Installation of Concrete Curbing on West Washington and Robertson Court.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and I need somebody to make this resolution.

Resolution by Wylie; second Rodgers.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion from council.

Wylie asked what would happen if we didn’t do it? Forte said she was thinking the same thing.

Smith said so, the erosion will just keep going (unintelligible). Over on West Washington, the ditch if you will, is probably about eight to ten inches deep and the side of the road is starting to crack off. Wylie said OK. Smith said and that will just keep going. It’s not only a huge mega trip hazard, but it’s also just the asphalt just going to fall apart. Wylie said OK. Smith said over on Robertson Court, Jimi [Turner, DPW supervisor] has been trying to keep that filled with gravel but it’s a losing battle. Every rainstorm he has to go down to Clarkston Road and retrieve his gravel and bring it back up the hill and put it back where it started. So, it’s an ongoing challenge and the homeowners are very frustrated about the continual erosion. Hubbell, Roth & Clark [the city’s contract engineering firm] reviewed this and there’s no question in their mind the only way to resolve this is with curbing. Wylie said OK. Smith said we could throw in some bigger stone that might not get washed away quite as easily, but it’s still probably not going to stop the asphalt from breaking off. Wylie said right.

Rodgers said and we have the money in the budget. We have the money in the budget. Smith said we do. Rodgers said that’s what you said (unintelligible). Smith said so, this is in our road budget. So, the monies are there. I just think it’s something that I know it’s a bit of a surprise, it wasn’t something that we were going to do at the start of the year. But we’ll just have to do somewhat less road construction in order to save these two roads. Wylie said OK. Smith said look at it that way. We have to save the two roads from getting worse. Wylie said all right, thank you.

Wylie said any other questions or comments on council.

Forte said did they say when they could do the work. Smith said that’s the reason I’m bringing this to you tonight. You might say, why are you rushing this in? You already got eight items on the agenda so far. Why are you pushing this in tonight? Because they, with the little bit more warmer winters, if you will. He says last year we did, we poured concrete up until Christmas. He says, I don’t know if we’ll get that lucky this year. But he says, I’m sure I can get this done before Thanksgiving if you get approval. Wylie said OK. Smith said so that’s the goal would be to get this done in the next two weeks. Rodgers said wonderful.

Wylie said anybody else.

Quisenberry said yes. I’ve been thinking about this. I’m trying to think this through. I’m not sure if we can even do this. But it’s not to exceed, it’s $24,937. If we renegotiate with him and say we want it at $24,000, it saves us $937, which is what we lost in parking. (Laughter.) Wylie said sorry to laugh, but that’s actually a good idea. (Unintelligible council crosstalk.) Smith said I think we can make that happen. Quisenberry said OK. Smith said considering that was part of the 10% uplift. Wylie said OK. Smith said his real quote is $22,670. On the sidewalk, he held right to that. It was a much bigger project, and he held right to the penny. He didn’t charge us anything over. So that 10% that I had added to the sidewalk quote was not necessary. So, my gut feeling is he probably will stay right to that $22,670. Quisenberry said we’ll see. It was just something to think about. Forte said it was a good negotiation. Wylie said good thinking.

Wylie said anybody else on council or in the public have questions or comments on this resolution.

No comments.

Wylie said then we need a roll call. Smith said OK.

Quisenberry, Lamphier, Rodgers, Wiley, Casey, and Forte voted yes.

Wylie said OK, so the resolution is adopted.

Item 12g – Resolution: Purchase of a Handicap Swing for the Depot Park Playground (Video time mark 1:30:59):

• • Resolution – Handicap Swing for Depot Park (page 55/57 of the council packet)
  • Photo and Description of Swing (page 56/57 of the council packet)
  • Bid Comparison (page 57/57 of the council packet)

Wylie said and we are now on Item #12g, Resolution, Purchase of a Handicapped Swing for the Depot Park Playground. And the resolution is included.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said we will start with a resolution in a second and then we can have a discussion.

Resolution by Rodgers; second Forte.

Wylie said and now we can have a discussion.

(To Smith), Rodgers said I have a question. What age is this swing for? Because right now the only two things that small children can be on at our park are those two little baby swings. And I’m thinking an infant, if this is what I’m picturing, this is more for older children to young adults. And that then negates, if it’s going to be put in this area and not with its own swing structure, that leaves one swing for babies. And we have a lot of babies in our park. Smith said so, it would, so, the proposal is that it would take the place of one of those little toddler seats. The age group for this one that’s shown here in orange, is it’s got a full harness, and it can accommodate two years to twelve years. Rodgers said yeah, it’s big. Smith said it’s a big range, but they say it can accommodate a two-year-old. So, I thought, I don’t know what age groups are being put in these other swings, if it’s under two. Rodgers said yeah, for sure. The thought was I don’t see too often when both swings are in use. Now, granted, if a family has a couple kids, they might try to stretch it and put the two-year-old and the four-year-old in there, but it’s – (interrupting and speaking to Smith), Rodgers said I have to tell you that I have had kids waiting for those baby swings. Smith said really. Rodgers said yeah. Smith said OK. (To Forte), Wylie said same thing? Forte said well, Alice was in it today, and it’s like not recommended for Alice’s size, but like – (Rodgers made an unintelligible comment) – (continuing) Forte said Alice is huge. It was like she was such a fan. This is my neighbor, like, and his grandson.

Rodgers said I mean, I’m just thinking of mine who’s fifteen months old. Berkeley parks have one of these swings, which are phenomenal for special needs kids and even for, like you said, even a two-year-old. They’re kind of big for a two-year-old. It’s hard to get somebody that doesn’t have control of their body like infants or fifteen months old into one of these because they kind of have to sit there, and then you pull this big thing down over top of them, and then they’re in. When you’re trying to like hold a twelve-month-old in there while you’re like doing that, it’s really difficult. And I just think our park is so geared to the probably four and over or a good, strong three-year-old and over, that there’s very few places for young moms, at least when I watch them, this is all just my opinion, to put their little ones when their older ones are running the park. So, I think this is a fantastic idea, but can we do something where, you know, or maybe we take one of the big people swings. Those aren’t always in use. You know, we have, what, four or six of them. Smith said four. Rodgers said four of them. Maybe those, because you can put a big person in this seat. So maybe, like minus that picture, if it goes somewhere else other than I wouldn’t want to see those baby swings gone. Forte said I agree. Rodgers said they’re just used so much. Forte said yeah, because when he, like I literally went and took his spot today. Rodgers said yes. Forte said we were trading spots. Like I was like, oh, like, you know what I mean? Rodgers said yeah. Forte said so, yeah, it was about to be where there was two babies in there at the same, well, not at the same time, but yeah. Smith said well, that’s feedback that I can’t necessarily relate to. Forte said no, it’s okay, it’s okay. You’re not sitting in the park all day. Rodgers said but it could go in one of the bigger people’s seats. Smith said one of the bigger ones.

Smith said you know, when Jimmy had to weld one of the bigger swings because it just totally broke in half. But there are some big kids, I mean, in their twenties, going on those swings and they get them going up so they are horizontal to the ground and really going fast on those and they actually cracked the top pipe. Wylie said oh wow. Smith said Jimi was able to just do a miraculous job of not just patching it. He put a pipe inside the pipe, welded it all up. It’ll support a tank now. But we can, we could, I don’t, I can’t say I’ve ever seen four adults swinging at the same time on that. Rodgers said no. Smith said so, I would have to agree with that assessment. Maybe that’s a better place for it.

Smith said the woman that approached me on this was extremely passionate and just crying almost, explaining the need for her granddaughter that has a prosthesis, and she has to, to use one of these other swings that’s shown here in the picture, they have to take her prosthesis off, which is just very embarrassing for her granddaughter. And the other kids, you know, just don’t, they can’t understand that. They say nasty things. So, it’s, it’s very traumatic. And so, she was very, she was very traumatic and emotional about the need for this. And she said, they have this in other parks, but I have to drive to, I think it was Lake Orion that has one, and I have to drive there. And she says, it’s just a wonderful swing and I just can’t say enough about it. So, I actually consulted with her after I found some information on it and said, do you think it’s this size or that size? There’s a cheaper one that’s just got a little fabric harness that goes around you. It’s just cloth. It’s not this three-point harness that comes over your head. But she said, I absolutely would not do the cloth one. It’s cheaper, yes, but it’s this three-point harness that she says is just amazing and so secure for kids. Rodgers said they have these in Berkeley and they’re nice. They’re really nice.

Wylie said it almost looks like something on a roller coaster for a amusement park. It’s pretty substantial looking. Smith said Little Tykes, you’ve heard the name Little Tykes, but this is Little Tykes Commercial, which is a big step up from, you know, the homeowner version.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said yeah, the Optimist Club has previously voiced interest in helping us with stuff on that park and their name is on that park. Can we appeal to them to pay for this? Smith said I did appeal to them and the answer was, sorry, but no. Their budget year is kind of shot, so it’s too late in the year for them. And they said, as far as next year, you just have to put in a request. He said, this year we got probably 300% request from what we could supply. It’s way over. So, he said, no guarantee you’d get it. Forte said would they reimburse us if we were to apply for next year but use, if we bought it like now, you know. Smith said I asked, I think there’s a, we have a, first of all, we have a Friends of Depot Park budget. That, for $5,000 and we haven’t spent a penny of it this year. So, to me, that’s kind of what this is for. Secondly, I think we have enough other playground upgrades that I could bring forward if we think we got a shot at the Optimist giving us money next year. And I think we should go for it. I think there’s enough other work. This $1,500, I’d say, let’s fund this one ourselves through the Friends of Depot Park budget that’s sitting there for this kind of thing. And then let’s think about next year, what do we want to, what’s the bigger item, a $6,000 or $10,000 item, that we’d like them to fund. Forte said yeah, makes sense.

Wylie said anybody else, questions or comments.

Quisenberry said didn’t we fund the Hawke pony cart [Pony Cycle] out of that $500, or $5,000? Smith said yes, that’s true. You’re absolutely right. But there’s still – (interrupting Smith), Quisenberry said yeah, there’s still money in there. Rodgers said has that been approved. Smith said what’s that. Rodgers said did the engineers approve that. Wylie said oh, we haven’t had that yet.

Smith said good question. So, I talked to Terry [Hawke] today, as a matter of fact. So, I talked to the engineer and to the Michigan Municipal League, and they both recommended, you need to talk to a playground specification expert, that that’s all he does. And so, I talked to him. He was very helpful. Sent me a 186 dollar, 186-page document, but very thorough on what you can and can’t do. And he walked me through how all the ratings work. At the end of the day, he went into a lot of detail, but he said, because this is sitting on the ground, there are many things I can take away that, you know, if this was a raised play equipment, that a kid could actually strangle themselves as they get stuck up there off the ground, and he says that’s how most children die on playgrounds. This Pony Cycle would sit on the ground. So, they’re not going to get hung. They’re going to just, they might get stuck or something, in the worst case, but they wouldn’t die. So, he said, yes, the severity is way, way down. That’s a rating that he says I could pretty much take off the playground because this is going to be on the ground.

Smith said there were some things, though, like the brake pedal, that Hawke was very passionate about. It’s actually a functional brake pedal. They said you can’t have that because some kid’s stomping on the brake and having a ball, another kid gets his hand between the brake and the bar, and he gets his hand smashed. So, he says you’ve got to weld that fixed. And then there’s handlebars. You think, handlebars, what could go wrong there? Well, a kid could be running at 100 miles an hour, an eye socket right into the handlebar end. And it’s kind of a scary picture. But that, they need to put, any protrusion like that has to be protected with like a tennis ball or something of that size to protect eye socket damage.

Smith said so, I’ve talked to Hawke today, and he wasn’t resisting. He says, I get it, I get it, I’ll work on it. I’m off and running. So, he’s working on it, and I hope we’ll have those couple things. I think there was one other thing. Oh, the front chain. We’re going to talk about how to tighten that up a little bit. But yeah, he’s working on a couple revisions. I told him we’re not going to install this until the spring anyways. It doesn’t make sense to install this brand-new Pony Cycle just before the snow flies. Let’s wait until spring. So that gives us the winter to fix this. But I said, let’s get this done because he wants to be paid. He hasn’t been paid yet. So, I said, well, we’ve got to finish these last few things before I can authorize payment.

Rodgers said so, once we pay for that, will we still have enough money for this? Smith said yes.

Wylie said would our DPW crew install this swing. Smith said yes. Wylie said as soon as, well, I don’t know how long it takes to get it, but as soon as possible, because you can still go out in the spring even if it’s cold and snowy. Smith said yeah. I’d still try to get this in this fall if you approve this. Wylie said OK. All right.

Wylie said any other discussion.

No discussion.

Wylie said we need a roll call. Smith said OK.

Casey, Forte, Rodgers, Wylie, Quisenberry, and Lamphier.

Wylie said OK, did I get everybody? An unidentified person agreed.

Wylie said resolution is adopted.

Agenda Item #13 [sic], Adjourn (Video time mark 1:44:44):

Wylie said and Item #13 is adjourning the meeting.

I take it we need a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Motion by Rodgers; second Forte.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the meeting is adjourned at 8:45. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for coming.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here
  • 11-12-2024 council packet