🌞🌞 Happy Sunshine Week! 🌞🌞
(Learn more by going here.)
(And now, back to the city council meeting.)
Introduction:
Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them, but this is a rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not). Mayor Eric Haven has also cut people off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act), another rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not).
If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short by the mayor, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.
Links to the video recording and the council packet can be found at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted between brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.
Agenda Item #1, Call to Order
There was no formal call to order.
Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:06):
Pledge said.
Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:23):
Amanda Forte, Laura Rodgers, Eric Haven, and Gary Casey were present. Bruce Fuller, Mark Lamphier, and Sue Wylie were absent.
Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:51):
Haven said he would entertain a motion to approve the agenda that they had in front of them.
Motion by Forte; second Rodgers.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to approve agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.
Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:16):
Haven read the rules for public comments. Haven asked if anyone who was there or online would like to address the council on anything that is not on the agenda.
No public comments.
Haven said they would move on to the next item on the agenda.
(City attorney Tom Ryan held up a page and made an unintelligible comment.) Haven said he didn’t know about the requirement of that and asked Ryan for his advice. Ryan said he thought this is what they’ve done. Haven said they have done it in the past and these items have come to them before, so they are not necessarily new and he thinks they are being adjudicated with the finance committee. Ryan said that Haven may want to make a comment that there have been questions written, made for public comment, from Mr. [Chet] Pardee, and a copy can be made part of the minutes or however you want to handle it.
Haven said Mr. Chet and Peggy Pardee have for the last two weeks made comments relative to our finance committee in preparation for our budget and so on. He [Pardee] has consolidated these into a list of 19 items, and the finance committee will be considering them, and Mr. Pardee has attended those meetings so his voice will certainly be heard there.
Jonathan Smith [city manager] said that the comments that were submitted were more about the sidewalks, and he asked if Haven got them. Haven said let him just read them. He’ll just read them. Ryan said it’s only one page. Smith said Pardee did send some comments earlier in the day about the finance committee, but this one for tonight’s meeting was about sidewalks (unintelligible).
Haven said he would read this email to them dated today. (Interjections to Pardee’s comments noted in parentheses; Clarkston Sunshine additions to Pardee’s comments noted in brackets.)
Public comments, Clarkston council meeting, 3-13, Chet Pardee.
Good evening. Thank you, Jonathan [Smith] for providing an improved method for connecting remotely to city council meetings. (Haven said that’s the Teams, on Microsoft Teams asset – Smith agreed).
Thank you for transparent communication regarding the intention to repair sidewalks using a criterion of one inch or greater between sections. They presently, legally (Ryan said present), they present legal liability. I look forward to Tom Ryan’s response (Haven said he’s our city attorney) to the apparent city liability on the Americans with Disabilities Act, ADA, of 1990 which defines a trip hazard as any vertical change of over ¼ inch or more in any joint or crack.
Did the 2022 updated RAMP [Road Asset Management Plan] report by HRC [Hubbell, Roth & Clark] include information on sidewalk sections requiring repair? Did it include sections not meeting the ADA requirement? Will the planned sidewalk repairs include situations like the missing chunks near The Fed and near Rudy’s on the west side of south Main Street that were present in October? Will the 37 sections of cracked sidewalk on west Miller not be repaired until upper Mill Pond and lower Mill Pond are connected, until a standpipe or similar is installed to maintain water height in upper Mill Pond?
Until west Miller Road is repaired, each year the sidewalk sections adjacent to lower Mill Pond sink lower and lower and more sections become covered by mud when it rains. Thank you to DPW [Department of Public Works] for removing the mud when you can.
How many sidewalk sections were repaired in 2019 when the $20,000 cost became $29,000 in cooperation with the Independence Township? This might provide an estimate for bringing our sidewalks into ADA compliance.
Will MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation] have a say in how the sidewalk sections on Main Street are repaired, as many sections are in their right-of-way. The city may want to try “lifting” of sidewalk sections rather than sectional replacement as a more economical approach. It worked for Clarkston Village Place.
Chet Pardee [address omitted].
Haven said OK, that’s the entirety of his comment.
Haven asked if anyone else had public comments this evening.
No additional comments.
Agenda Item #6, FYI (Video time mark 0:05:47):
Haven said that the next item on the agenda is For Your Information. Haven said he just has one card that they received relative to the, you know, they mentioned this before, the Pinwheels for Prevention, is going to be held tomorrow now, on Tuesday, March 14, from 8:00 a.m. to 8:30 p.m. in the Clarkston School Board office at 6389 Clarkston Road in Clarkston.
Haven asked if anyone else had any items for For Your Information.
Casey asked what is that? Pinwheels for Prevention kickoff ceremony. Haven said he isn’t real clear on what this is. They do this promotion on an annual basis. Casey said yes. Haven asked if anyone knew the intent of that.
Rodgers said the pinwheels, is it for autism? Haven passed the card to Rodgers and said he doesn’t know, it isn’t on the card. Rodgers said that she thinks that’s what she remembers it being for was for autism awareness. Smith said he thought Rodgers is right. Haven said for autism. Rodgers said for autism awareness. Haven said OK, that’s helpful. Rogers agreed and said she thinks that’s what it’s for.
[Clarkston Sunshine note: Pinwheels for Prevention is a program established by Prevent Child Abuse America. You can learn about this program by clicking here.]
Haven asked if anyone else has For Your Information items for the council?
No additional comment.
Agenda Item #7, Sheriff Report for January 2023 (Video time mark 0:06:49; page 3/33 of the council packet):
Haven said they would move on to the Sheriff’s report, Item #7, for February. They have it in their packet. Haven asked if Lieutenant Ashley was there, perhaps if they have any questions or comment about that. (Lieutenant Ashley approached the podium.) Haven said he has a few just to kind of get the ball rolling here a little bit. Lieutenant Ashley has been very proactive and willing to participate, and they are happy to have him.
Haven said four items, really, he had here. They’ve discussed lights in Depot Park. They’ve discussed speed control. Haven has heard comments about speed control on Depot and Miller, and some people running the lights on Miller, and in particular on Depot Road, the speed coming off the hill here. We’ve had vandalism issues in our village park and also, we discussed in the past using cameras to perhaps prohibit that. So, some of these are live issues moving forward. They all sort of revolve around protecting what we have here, you know, and how we can interact with Lieutenant Ashley in developing systems and practices. Lieutenant Ashley said sure, that’s something definitely that they will look into, and they are trying to increase their patrol in the area also for any of that stuff. Haven agreed. Continuing, Lieutenant Ashley said the ticket counts are way up compared to what they were last year. You had 290 for the total year and we are already up to 107 for the first two months, so that does help. Presence seems to be really big.
Lieutenant Ashley said as far as the cameras go, he doesn’t know, they could place, you know, have cameras strategically around, especially in the park. Haven said in the park, they are thinking about, for vandalism. We have a vandalism issue on the agenda tonight. Lieutenant Ashley said yes, he saw that.
Lieutenant Ashley asked Haven for some of the other ones. Haven said they’ve talked about lighting in Depot Park as an asset for safety and that sort of thing. They’ve done it on the west side since Laura [Rodgers] and Amy [last name unknown] put lights up for the Christmas Market, and Lieutenant Ashley was involved in that as well. Lieutenant Ashley agreed. Haven said perhaps it might be advantageous on the east side of the (unintelligible) as well. Lieutenant Ashley said he would think so too, and he doesn’t know if Haven has even looked into the solar lights for cost savings. Those are a lot better too. You can put up over there too. Yes, lighting does help. Lieutenant Ashley said he knows they were talking about the animals last time and worried about that too, if there was some kind of – Haven said yes, what type of lighting is important for the wildlife and that sort of thing, but there’s certainly lighting that – Lieutenant Ashley said (unintelligible), but lighting is going to be big. He would have to say that, especially for just people after hours too. Haven agreed. Lieutenant Ashley said people walking around and the more lit up it is, it seems to be the better. Haven agreed. Lieutenant Ashley said especially when you get around in the neighborhoods too. Haven said yes, streetlights and so on. Lieutenant Ashley agreed.
Haven said look at all of that with us moving forward, he thinks. Lieutenant Ashley was asking for ways to get involved and be helpful, you know. Lieutenant Ashley agreed. Haven asked what other communities are doing, for example in these areas. Lieutenant Ashley asked Haven as far as what. Haven said in particular, vandalism and then lighting would be appropriate for that. Lieutenant Ashley said yes. Haven said cameras as well. Lieutenant Ashley said in some of the areas, they are getting stuff stolen out of their cars, stuff like that. Haven said we had that. Lieutenant Ashley said that people are making that easy. He hates to say it. They’re leaving their cars unlocked. Lights aren’t on. You’ve got to turn your lights on in your house. That’s a big deterrent. Cameras are. A lot of people do have the Ring, Nest, and those kinds of things. Lieutenant Ashley said he’s not too up on the IT [Information Technology] stuff as much as what he’d like to be, but he thinks some of that, he doesn’t know if it’s Nest or Ring, you can sign up to part of a – Haven said a neighborhood watch – Lieutenant Ashley said a neighborhood watch, which is really great. (Forte made an unintelligible comment.) Lieutenant Ashley said oh yes, yes, so it’s instantaneous. Forte said she didn’t know it could do that. Lieutenant Ashley said so the police can actually tap into that. Not tap into, he shouldn’t say that, that’s a bad word. Tap into that. They can review it and – Forte said in an emergency – Lieutenant Ashley said in an emergency, yes, correct.
Haven said that Lieutenant Ashley said lights on in the house. Is he talking about timers and that sort of thing. Lieutenant Ashley said yes, on the outside especially. Haven said outside. Lieutenant Ashley said you know, you’ve got to keep your outside lights on. He does, and he has a police car in the driveway, and he still keeps his lights on because he thinks that’s just a big deterrent anywhere, in any neighborhood. Keep your cars locked, don’t keep valuables, don’t keep, make sure your garage door is down. He remembers, it wasn’t in this community, it was in Rochester, he had to go to a house that the lady’s purse was stolen out of the house. Her garage door was up. Well, what don’t you do, usually you don’t lock your inside door. The garage door, somebody walked in, what does she do, she has the purse sitting on the counter. Haven said wow. Lieutenant Ashley said in and out. She said we have a dog. Lieutenant Ashley said do you have a fan on at night. She said yes. So, nobody’s going to hear. A lot of people sleep with sound machines nowadays. Haven said sure. Lieutenant Ashley said and (unintelligible) machines, and everything else. The other deterrent is you have to have everything locked up. That’s the big thing. Lock it all up, and obviously, keep the lights on outside. That’s another big one. Haven agreed. Lieutenant Ashley said oh, and please call them for anything suspicious. That’s their job. Everybody that calls goes “I hate to bother you, but . . .” That’s our job. To check things out. He would rather go to a house 10,000 times and find nothing than to actually, well, now we’ve got something that we have to do. Haven said sure (unintelligible) proactively. Lieutenant Ashley agreed.
Haven asked if anybody else on council wanted to ask the lieutenant anything.
Smith said he wanted to ask Lieutenant Ashley about the idea of putting a “your speed” sign on Depot Road. Lieutenant Ashley said any time he needs it. Smith said we can do a temporary one on the trailer, and maybe that’s where we start, because people are flying down that hill, and as we get into spring here, the amount of kids in the park are going to grow exponentially. Lieutenant Ashley agreed. Smith said when it gets above 50 degrees, they will be everywhere. These cars flying down the hill, and they are literally going, Smith said he knows that it’s hard to judge speeds when you’re standing there as a pedestrian, but it looks like they’re going 40 or 50 miles per hour. Lieutenant Ashley said yes, oh yes, he totally gets it. What’s nice about the speed signs is it also records all that, so we can get a printout. So, if we put it down there for a week, whatever you want to do, or a month, whatever it is we need to put it out there, and just get an idea of what we’re looking at. And we get a printout of it, and that way, we can judge a little bit better what we might need to do.
Smith said he’s considered, and he hasn’t talked to council about this yet, but a permanent “your speed” out there, but he guesses they should start with the Sheriff’s trailer sign. Lieutenant Ashley said sure. Smith said and see what kind of – Lieutenant Ashley said and it’s cheaper. It doesn’t cost anything. Smith said just to start and justify the need for a permanent sign and then – Lieutenant Ashley said yes, they could do that. Smith said let’s wait until it gets a little bit warmer because that’s when that road gets crazy. Lieutenant Ashley said sure. Smith said he’s just worried there’s going to be a fatality out there. Lieutenant Ashley said yes, he knows, that’s the bad thing, everybody comes zipping around the corner down the hill. Smith said down the hill, and they’re up to 45 before they know it. Lieutenant Ashley agreed and said we don’t need any kids running around out there, for sure. Smith said OK, thank you.
Haven said and we have parallel parking down the way as well. People backing out. Smith said yes. Lieutenant Ashley said yes, the kid is coming out from behind the cars. Haven said kids and the driver is backing out. You’d be kind of blind. It’s kind of hard to see. Lieutenant Ashley said for sure.
Haven said just take some of these back. He’ll give Lieutenant Ashley a call one of these days and they’ll just make a little agenda. Lieutenant Ashley said yes, that’s fine, any time. He can come over, or they can meet. It’s not a problem. Haven said OK, good. Lieutenant Ashley said all right. Haven and Rodgers thanked Lieutenant Ashley. Lieutenant Ashley said they’re welcome.
Agenda Item #8, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:14:33; page 4/33 of the council packet):
Haven said the next thing on their agenda after the Sheriff’s report is the city manager’s report and that is in their packet.
(Unintelligible side conversation between Ryan and Forte.)
Haven said that there are just two items on here about the no hazard participation and four Saturdays, the weekends, April 29th, June 3rd, July 22nd and April [September] 16th. This is for taking hazardous materials. April 29th is at the Pine Knob Music Theatre. June 3rd is at the Oxford Middle School. July 22nd is at Kensington Church, and September 16th is at the Oakland County Service Center Campus. That’s at 1200 North Telegraph. That’s in the main Sheriff’s Department down there on Telegraph. From 8:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. on those days. Smith agreed. Haven said he didn’t want to steal Smith’s thunder, but they talked about this last meeting, and Smith is just reiterating it here. Smith said he just got the schedule. The next step will be for them to roll out what materials are accepted, because there are, you know, some things that they don’t accept, not many things, but there are three or four things, so he will get all that information well before the April 29th date so people will know what they can take to the dump day. Haven agreed.
Haven said that the second item on Smith’s report is a well-deserved thank you to our DPW for all the hard work they did last week after the two ice storms we had. Smith agreed. Haven said then we got buried with snow, and they were literally digging out with snowplows. He observed that in front of his house. So, Jimi Turner and Carson Danis. Smith agreed. Haven asked if it was just the two of them, was there anybody else. Smith said just the two of them. Haven said they did our whole village.
Rodgers said that she knows that Haven knows this, but this is the first time that they had anything with those big trees on Main Street at her house. They were away, and their dog sitter was like oh my gosh, there’s a lot of activity going on at their house and sending her pictures. When they got home that night at midnight, all of it was in their yard and completely filled their yard. Haven said tree branches. Rodgers said yes, tree branches, like tree branches that are like the size of medium-sized trees. You know, those big, 200-year-old oak trees. They don’t look from the ground as really as big as they really are when they fall to the ground. Haven agreed. (Smith made an unintelligible comment.) Rodgers said or as heavy as they really are, yes. Rodgers said they were thinking they were going to have to call somebody. You know, they are on the easement, but Rodgers doesn’t know what that means, wasn’t sure what that meant, and she thinks it was like 7:30 in the morning they were out there just, but 1:00 in the afternoon, it was as if it had never happened. It was completely cleared out. Haven said that’s amazing. Rodgers said she gives them a lot of credit, because they were heavy trees and she didn’t think theirs was the only one. She thinks there was another one down the road or so. But heavy, heavy trees that they got out of there and the [Oakland County] Road Commission came with their chipper, she thinks that what it was, and chipped it all up. It was amazing work. She was very proud. Haven said thank you.
Smith said that made the cleanup even harder. It wasn’t just snowplowing. It was (unintelligible). They had four or five trees with large branches that had to be completely taken out, so that just added to their workload, and they do it without the slightest complaining or moaning and groaning, they just dig in and get it done. So, Smith loves these guys. They’ve really been a great team. Haven said if you see them around town, thank them for what they’re doing. It’s very well appreciated. Smith said that they even cleaned up a couple on private property that were between the sidewalk and the house, but it was a resident that was in Florida for the winter. Smith said he tried to get ahold of him via the email that he had for him, and it was taking a long time, and Jimi just said, “I’m just going to go ahead and do it.” So, he did it, and he cleaned it all up, his front yard, and so it’s really a credit to the guys for going the extra mile. Haven agreed. Rodgers said we are a very lucky community to have people like that, like those two, to do that because that doesn’t happen everywhere. Smith said he agrees.
Haven said so, pass along our thanks to them. Smith agreed.
Agenda Item #9 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:19:05):
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- 02-27-2023 Draft Minutes (page 5/33 of the council packet)
- 02-13-2023 Final Minutes (page 8/33 of the council packet)
- 03-13-2023 – Treasurer’s Report (page 11/33 of the council packet)
- 03-02-2023 – Check Disbursement Report, 02-01-2023 – 02-28-2023 (page 12/33 of the council packet)
- Carlisle/Wortman, February invoice (page 22/33 of the council packet)
- Thomas J. Ryan, PC, February invoices (page 25/33 of the council packet)
Haven said the next item on their agenda is their acceptance of the consent agenda. This is a combination of three things. Every month we do this, consolidate it to make it easy to dispose of in the meetings. It’s the draft minutes from their February 27th meeting, the final minutes from their February 13th meeting, the prior one, and our treasurer’s report of 3-13-23. Haven said he would make a motion to accept these documents and their consent agenda as a body, as one unit.
Motion by Casey; second Rodgers.
Haven said that there’s a motion and second to accept the consent agenda as it has been presented to them.
Haven asked if there was any discussion about this.
No discussion.
Motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.
Agenda Item #10, Old Business
Item 10a – Resolution: Allocation of the 2022 CDBG funds to the Independence Township Senior Center Transportation Program (Video time mark 0:20:06)
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- Resolution – 2022 Community Development Block Grant Funding Allocation (page 28/33 of the council packet)
Haven said they have two items under old business. The first one is a resolution to allocate the 2022 CDBG, Community Development Block Grant funds, to the Independence Township Senior Transportation Program. They discussed this last time and that seemed to be sort of a general consensus but they didn’t act upon it finally. So, they have a resolution before them to do that in the amount of $7,000. Haven said he wanted to read the resolution.
(Haven read the resolution.)
Haven said he would like someone to move that they resolve, to make this resolution. Haven asked who would like to make the motion.
Motion by Rodgers; second Casey.
Haven said Rodgers moved and Casey seconded it for them to adopt this resolution.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
Casey said he thinks it’s a great thing to do. Rodgers and Haven said they agree. Haven said it’s kind of the core of our community and really affects a lot more people than just seniors even. Our special needs community. Rodgers said absolutely. (Haven made an unintelligible comment.)
Haven said he guesses without further ado, we had our hearing before, so he asked Karen [DeLorge, clerk] to please take the roll.
Rodgers, Haven, Forte, and Casey voted yes. Haven said all right.
Ryan, Haven, and DeLorge said the resolution passes. Haven said it is adopted. DeLorge agreed.
Item 10b – Motion: Establishment of a Parking Advisory Committee (Video time mark 0:22:56)
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- Motion – Establishment of a Parking Advisory Committee (page 29/33 of the council packet)
Haven said on the second item under Old Business is a motion to establish a parking advisory committee and Ryan suggested that they formalize this as an asset to Smith in making decisions for parking in the future. Haven said he would read this resolution as well.
(Haven read the resolution.)
Haven said they needed someone to move to adopt this resolution. Who would like to do that?
Motion by Rodgers; second Casey.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
Forte asked what is the goal of this committee. Are they like going to set the hours, or what is like – Haven said whatever, Smith will lead this, he’s in charge, he’s the administrator. Smith said all those kinds of questions, that they’re not going to deny or undo the council’s approval for paid parking. That was decided by council. If they were to come up with a recommendation that this is just not going to work, they would have to recommend that it just be brought back to council. They don’t have decision-making – Haven agreed – (continuing), Smith said power in that regard. But they are there to assist Smith, so questions about hours of operation, yes, that’s one. What do we do about employee parking. That’s a big one that a lot of businesses have been coming in asking Smith “what are you going to do about paid parking and where are my employees going to park?” Forte agreed. Smith said another one is the private land up here owned by Neil Wallace. How are we going to flag that? Forte agreed. Smith said make sure that people aren’t parking in his spots, and vice-versa. They will have some kind of permit. Are other permits? So, other people that say “I need a permit, where do I get a permit?” Well, we’re not going to do permits. Well, OK, we need to work through those questions.
Smith said it’s just that there are a lot of questions as Smith gets into the implementation. It’s a little more complicated than even the Washington and Main lot because that one wasn’t primarily an employee parking lot for many, many years as this one is. So, Smith just has some questions that he needs help with, and he doesn’t want to do this in a vacuum. Smith said he would like some, a good panel of a cross-section of people that can help him make some of these decisions. Some of them are just administrative decisions as Haven has said and within Smith’s ability to just, you know, make the decision. Other things he may have to bring back to council, things he thinks are important enough to have council vote on these. So, we’ll take it a day at a time here to see how this plays out, but that’s the purpose of this committee, and we have our first meeting this Wednesday night. So, we’ll start the discussion and see where it goes. It’s not going to be a one and done meeting. Smith thinks there will be, he doesn’t know, three or four meetings and then maybe as need be. We can call special meetings, but Smith thinks there will be at least as couple three meetings to start.
Forte said so, this will be an ongoing committee. Smith said potentially. They’ll see how, you know, if it’s very cut and dry as they get into some of these issues, and Smith has a list that he will present to them in the first meeting. If they make it through it all, maybe it is just a couple of meetings and they’re done, but Smith foresees this as being a committee that they would like to have access to, that he would like to have access to, need be, going forward.
Rodgers asked Smith if they are open meetings, and he said they are open meetings, absolutely. They’ll be on their city calendar, and anybody is welcome to sit in. Rodgers said OK. Smith said he would remind people that this is not a decision-making body. They are just an advisory committee, primarily to Smith, but, if need be, advisory to council as well. Haven said OK.
Haven recognized Erich Lines (Curt Catallo’s business partner). Lines said he was wondering if his designation should change to show that he’s also a homeowner besides being a business owner. Haven said he’s both. Lines said that the majority of the people on the committee are paid parking advocates and he doesn’t want people to think the same thing about the businesses (unintelligible) representation. Smith said right. Lines has a very good point, and he totally overlooked – Haven said Lines is a flex member. Smith said that Lines balances it, two and a half, two and a half.
Haven recognized Cara Catallo (Curt Catallo’s sister). Catallo said she was just concerned and wondered if there had been a call out to see if people wanted to be on the committee, just because like just sitting there, she could name five other people who are business owners and homeowners, and it just seemed a little bit, uh, Smith just mentioned, in a vacuum, like the selection of the four people just seemed a little bit, almost peculiar, because you’ve got one business owner who’s going to need a lot of approvals in the near future, so that just seemed a little bit odd, and it also, he doesn’t feel like as much of a stake holder because he’s on the other side of town and another, other business owner actively using two parking spots right now for no apparent reason because it’s winter, so, and the homeowner, keep in mind, she likes all of these people. They’re all lovely, lovely people. She has no problems with the people. One of them, a few of them, she considers literally her closest friends, but it just seems as though they were picked a little bit randomly instead of asking stakeholders, and she just doesn’t, she’s concerned that it’s more likely to be an echo chamber, and the two residents in particular to her, it jumped out that they were members of the committee to make sure that medical marijuana didn’t pass, and that made Catallo think too that that job doesn’t seem done, like why are they being used to make sure whatever loophole that we have in our, in our, not our ordinance, but in zoning, right, but even beyond that, the main, right, like – Ryan said charter – Catallo said right, the charter, thank you. It just seemed like they were, they were picked almost randomly to serve on this, and Catallo doesn’t remember hearing a call to people who might be interested and might have a greater understanding of the problem that has existed, or the problem that hasn’t existed to be honest, it just, again, lovely people, really wonderful people, Catallo actually doesn’t know the Brunch House person, but she assumes he’s also wonderful, but it just seemed a little bit random and a missed opportunity, and she wanted to point out too that we have a business group in town. We have access to the county to better understand what might be the correct direction to go in, that we can ask people who have had this in their business field. It just, to her, felt a little bit like the cart is, the horses are chasing a runaway cart, and she just, again, lovely people, she thinks they can definitely serve our community, but it feels a little bit random, and like bestowing, like more of an effort to bestow an honor on someone that might not have a specific understanding of the issue. And again, there are five res, like off the top of her head, residents and business owners in addition to Mr. Lines. So, she just, because this doesn’t really say anything beyond like advisory committee, it also didn’t mention, she thinks Mr. Ryan suggested that it have a cutoff date. She noticed it doesn’t have that. It also has the wrong clerk’s name at the bottom which you might want to rectify as well. But it just seemed to her like this is, this could maybe wait for the next meeting because, she means, she knows it’s set for Wednesday, it just, she just wanted to voice her concerns that it felt a little bit like sort of random decision making. Thank you.
Haven thanked Catallo.
Forte said we, like, could we have this first meeting but hold off on saying the committee is made up of certain people, like these people can of course still be on it, but could we leave until our next council meeting to, like, she guesses as a council, (to Ryan), you tell me, like can we wait and maybe put in our newsletter, you did put in our newsletter, like, that we were putting this thing together, but could we put in the newsletter publicly that we, if you have any interest, we are meeting this Wednesday, but like if you’d like to join, please – Smith said sure. Forte said that she doesn’t see that there’s, there’s no downside. Smith said he didn’t really think there was a set number. They just, they don’t want a committee of twenty, but whether five or seven, Smith doesn’t think that’s a problem. There’s always going to be somebody that can’t make it at night. So, it’s not a bad idea to add a little, maybe add two more people, but that’s totally up to council, if you want to leave it open for up to seven people, Smith wouldn’t recommend going more than seven, but – Haven said it’s like Smith said. This is not a decision-making bureau. It’s just to aid our city manager in doing the administration of this, and so it’s not like it’s a boilerplate thing. To get it started, Haven thinks to get it started, it’s advantageous. Smith has a meeting coming up, anyone can come. If we want to add people to it, we can certainly do that. Lines voiced his desire to be part of it in the last meeting, and we added him to the list. We had originally two residents and two businesspeople. That was the balance there, and with Lines joining, he’s a flex member, OK, so he can represent both sides of it, so it’s like a fairly good body to launch with. So, rather than prolonging things for the sake of prolonging them, let’s just get going, and, in Haven’s opinion, the people who show up, if somebody wants to volunteer at that juncture, then we can even add them.
Rodgers said she thinks she’s trying to like picture what, how this will all go down, and as long as, like so, if a group of five decide that they want to have paid parking start at 3:00 in the afternoon and go until 10:00. That’s probably not what it’s going to be, but let’s just say that’s just (unintelligible due to background noise). And the people that come to talk and chat don’t. They have just as much of a voice as the five, right? Ultimately, Smith doesn’t really have to ask anybody if he doesn’t want to, he’s just trying to – Smith said gain some input from the community. Rodgers said right. She kind of sees it as a flex group anyhow. Whoever shows up as input, right? Smith said well, certainly if somebody is in the audience and says “I would like to speak on that matter,” we would then consider their input, just like everybody else. Rodgers said right. Haven said that’s what he’s saying. It’s not formal. It’s very informal, but Ryan wanted us to somewhat formalize it and that’s what we’re doing. Forte said yes.
Ryan said right, and he wanted to say his two cents. He thinks they should amend the resolution, if they’re going to do the motion tonight, they should make Mr. Lines either business owner or business rep, and a residential rep, and then obviously the name of the clerk, but to Forte’s point, Ryan would suggest they start, if they can pass this tonight, then you’ll have the meeting Wednesday. That will give some more people that won’t know about it, and you can always amend this motion if there are people that want to be on it in the community, then council can make it five, or make it seven, or whatever if that’s what it comes to, to get it started.
Forte agreed and asked if they could make a note that they would like to add it to this letter that anyone who wants to be involved in this can be, so it’s (gesturing). Ryan said well, can apply and show up to the meeting. Forte said apply. Show up to the meetings and apply, whatever, and then we’ll just move forward with it as is.
Casey said he doesn’t think it should be anyone who wants to be involved. Forte asked, it shouldn’t be? Casey said you could get a lot of people, and Smith’s point is you can’t have too many cooks in the kitchen. Forte agreed. Smith said she’s still worrying about applying. So, they can apply or express interest in it and then we can decide, but Smith doesn’t think we should just say anybody who wants to be on the committee can be. To Casey’s point, that could be twenty people. Haven said it’s cumbersome after a while. (Rodgers made an unintelligible comment.) Smith said he doesn’t think it will be that large. He doesn’t think that many people are interested in it. Forte said no, true. Smith said OK.
Haven said they have a motion and a second to adopt this resolution. Casey said they have to amend it first. Forte agreed.
Haven said OK, let’s do that then. You all agree, Rodgers and Casey, that with your motion and your second to amend it to say Erich Lines, Union Joints and resident, local resident, along with your motion? Casey and Rodgers agreed. Haven said OK.
Haven asked if there was any other discussion about this.
Haven recognized Cara Catallo again. Catallo said that she would suggest that Lines be represented, instead of a representative, as homeowner just to equal the other two that are homeowners. Haven said homeowner, OK. Catallo said she was also curious about this, that there was a call out to people, because again, “we” have access to a lot of people who are interested in this and Catallo doesn’t remember hearing that there was a callout for people who are interested, and she’s just slightly worried that they’re all, again, echo chamber concerns her, that they’re all, with the exception of maybe Mr. Lines, who has a lot of experience in this, like on the same page, so she’s concerned that there’s not a lot of sort of diversity being respected, not the kind of diversity that you’re against, but like the, like different thinking, so she’s still just a little bit concerned about that and wish that, again, she doesn’t know, did she miss the call for people or was it just quietly done, yeah, on the inside.
Smith said he didn’t know – Haven said he initiated it, and he didn’t know people who had an interest in it, and then they wrote letters. They wrote letters to Smith and council indicating their experience and a desire to serve, so – Forte said so, you just asked people in the community. Haven said yes, who he knows had expressed interest in – Rodgers said she thought they’d talked about this at a faculty, a city council meeting, because like Forte brought it up, Forte thought there should be a committee, right? Didn’t Forte bring that up, or is Rodgers thinking of something else? Forte said she didn’t hand-pick the members. Rodgers said no, but didn’t they talk about like, people having an interest in this topic – Forte said it was definitely a heated debate. Rodgers said yes. Forte said at one point, but she thinks it was before she was on council. That October meeting, is that what Rodgers is talking about? Rodgers said no, no, just recently, when they were, well, it would have been October, Forte is right. It would have been in October that they, when they passed it, and Forte talked about having a committee to decide the hours and stuff like that. Forte said yeah, but she feels like this committee doesn’t like, this is after the fact, like we already put up the stuff. Like, she means like, the hours are great, but she thinks it’s good. The businesses do need to like have a say in like how it works, and she thinks like parents, like whose kids walk to school and stuff like, they’ll have a really good point of view. Haven said it’s a public meeting. They can come. Forte said yes, people who go to the park, all that. Haven said sure. Forte said but she wishes it was done before, but she wasn’t on council then.
Haven said OK, they have a motion and second to adopt. Are they ready to vote? Casey said yes. Haven asked DeLorge to call the roll.
Casey asked if they have to vote on the amendment. Ryan said Haven asked for a concurrence. Haven said yes. Ryan said technically, you do. Casey said all right. Ryan said they can if they want, but the mayor did ask if Casey and Rodgers agreed to the amendment. They both said they did, so. . . Casey said OK. Ryan said he thinks they should have a roll call just to make sure just because, but you don’t have to. Haven agreed. He thinks they should. Ryan said to make sure the voice vote is full. Haven said all right and asked DeLorge to please take the roll.
Haven, Casey, Forte, and Rodgers voted yes. Haven said we have four that voted for it, and that’s their quorum for this evening. All right, so the resolution passes.
Agenda Item #11, New Business
Item 11a – Resolution: Purchase of Replacement Musical Flower for Depot Park (Video time mark 0:40:39)
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- Resolution – Depot Park Musical Flower Replacement (page 30/33 of the council packet)
- Harmony Park Quote (page 31/33 of the council packet)
- Photos, Musical Flowers in Depot Park (page 32/33 of the council packet)
Haven said they have a resolution before them with a pictorial and price quote on the exhibits for replacement of the flower that is a part of our instrument array at the south end of the park. These are pricey, as you can see. Haven asked Smith if we are replacing the whole thing, is that what Smith said? Forte said it’s expensive. Haven said an in-ground mount kit. Is that the whole thing, from cement up? Smith said that’s correct. Haven said we can’t just buy a petal for this thing. Smith said you can, but it’s about $1,000 for a petal, for one petal. Haven said all right. Smith said it’s $1,500 for the whole thing. So, it was Jimi’s [Jimi Turner, DPW supervisor] thought that we replace the whole thing because there’s actually, and you can see in the pictures here, the one petal is missing entirely, but this petal down at the bottom, you can just kind of, sort of see it, it is bent down, so it’s not flat the way it’s supposed to be. So, it’s changed the sound in that petal as well. Haven said yes. Smith said so, he never thought he would become an expert – Haven said perfect pitch – Smith said they do sound differently if they’re not tuned. So, could Turner go out and buy a piece of sheet steel and put it in there and paint it orange? Yes, he could, but it wouldn’t have the same tone, and even this bent flower in the bottom right corner there has a different sound to it now that it’s bent. So, we really need to replace two flowers, and that would exceed the cost of buying a whole new flower. Haven said we might get some spare parts. Smith agreed.
Haven asked Smith if he sees the applicability here, we’re talking about vandalism and so on. We’ve replaced two bathrooms here in this building already, you know, so we’re vulnerable. Whenever you put a nice asset out there, you make yourself vulnerable, you know. And it’s costly, and so the observance of what’s happening and who’s doing it, Smith also had a liaison with the high school, right? An unidentified man [Lieutenant Ashley?] said correct. Haven said which is helpful, he thinks, in this regard, so Haven thinks – the unidentified man said in fact they have three liaisons in this district. Haven said OK. It’s so nice that we have high school participation on many of the things we are doing here through Steve Wyckoff and his industrial arts group. So, we’re involving the high school kids a lot in what we’re doing here in this park. So, it’s really upsetting and disheartening when we see this kind of thing going on, so we would like to do what we can to stop this. Cameras can be a part of this. You can focus cameras on certain elements that are vulnerable, you know, in this case and we could learn more about it. Anyway, that’s an aside.
Haven said he would entertain a motion to adopt this resolution to spend this money. It’s a resolution because we are spending money on this to the tune of $1,510.95 to replace this asset in the park.
Motion by Rodgers; second Casey.
Rodgers asked where they would get this money from in the budget. Smith said it will come from our park materials budget, which covers a lot of things from anything we need in the park essentially. If the gazebo needs paint, or a new electrical switch, or the park needs repair to an area that has been damaged, just about anything. We have a $19,000 budget for park materials that we spend every year that covers a wide variety of things. Rodgers said so, we have it. Smith said we have it, absolutely. (Pointing to a document), Haven said that Smith is real good too, in the resolution about putting the budget line item on there, so you know, you can look for that in the future. That actually is a line item in our budget, where that comes from. So, that’s helpful.
Smith said the DPW staff will install it, so there will be no additional cost. Haven said that’s helpful there.
Haven said OK, we have a motion and a second to adopt this resolution.
Haven asked if there was any further discussion.
No additional discussion.
Haven asked DeLorge if she would please take the roll.
Forte, Casey, Rodgers, and Haven voted yes. DeLorge said the resolution is adopted.
Agenda Item #12, Adjourn (Video time mark 0:45:10):
Haven said that’s the last item, he believes, on their agenda.
Haven said he would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Motion by Rodgers; Forte second.
Haven asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to adjourn by unanimous voice vote.
Haven said they are adjourned.
Resources:
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- Link to video recording:
http://216.11.46.126/CablecastPublicSite/show/4072?site=1 - 03-13-2013 – City Council packet
- Link to video recording: