July 22, 2024, City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order:

[It appears that the video recorder was not turned on at the start of the meeting and no Call to Order was recorded.]

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:00):

(Pledge said).

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:16):

Wylie said okay, our second item on the agenda is, I’m sorry, third item, call to order is number one, pledge allegiance was number two, number three is a roll call, and Catherine [Ashley, city clerk], if you would take the roll call, please.

Casey, Forte, Wylie, Roth, Rodgers, Quisenberry, and Lamphier were present.

Wylie thanked Ashley.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:41):

Wylie said Item #4, approval of the agenda, I need a motion to approve the agenda as presented.

Motion by Roth; second Forte.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:01):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said is there anybody with a public comment?

No public comments.

Agenda Item #6, Sheriff Report for June 2024 (Video time mark 0:01:38):

• • Sheriff Report for June 2024 from Lieutenant Richard Cummins (page 3/34 of the council packet)

Wylie said okay, hearing none, we will move on to Item #6, Sheriff’s Report for June 2024. And Sergeant Ashley is here, would you like, oh, you’re here, are you going to get up and talk? Sergeant Ashley said if you need me to, that’s fine, yeah. You have the report in front of you, I believe. Wylie said yes, we do.

Sergeant Ashley said as far as the tickets and everything else. So, if you have any questions. It kind of looks like we’ve kind of moved steadily along for the last three months with some tickets and everything else. We had more crashes this last month. I think it has to do with a lot of the construction that’s been going on.

Sergeant Ashley recognized Roth. Roth said property crime. Sergeant Ashley said the property crime, I believe that was an LFA, a larceny from an auto. Roth said OK. Sergeant Ashley said but I will double check that tomorrow and get back to you on that. Roth said no, that’s close enough, thank you. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, no problem.

Wylie said anybody else.

Roth said what about the violent crime, actually. Sergeant Ashley said family troubles. Roth said okay, I wondered. Sort of figured. Sergeant Ashley said yeah. Roth said domestic. Sergeant Ashley said some arguments. Roth said thank you.

Wylie thanked Sergeant Ashley.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report 07-22-2024 (Video time mark 0:02:44):

• • City Manager Report for July 22, 2024 (page 4/34 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #7 is a city manager’s report for July 22, 2024. And Jonathan [Smith, city manager] has included some items in the packet about Deer Lake boat launch remaining closed, the primary election for Michigan, green space beautification, repair of Depot Park raised landscape beds completed, possible expansion of the bioswale program, and city hall parking lot signage. (To Smith), Wylie said any of those things you want to address further.

Smith said just the possible expansion of the bioswale program. Just looking to see if council is interested in addressing that (unintelligible). Wylie said I’m in favor of it. Last I heard, there were a lot of people who had signed up, I think, with the biophilic committee who were interested in doing that. Do you know if they maintain that list? Smith said I think they do have a list of a few. I thought it was three. Wylie said I thought it was in the 40s. Smith said oh. The total number of – Wylie said maybe that’s the storm drains. That’s probably what it is.

(To Smith), Roth said I didn’t hear your number, I’m sorry. How many? Smith said three. Roth said three. That’s a lot of money.

Rodgers said how much does one bio – Smith said about $200. Wylie said that’s total cost? Smith said yes. Wylie said okay. Rodgers said so, and they’re asking to split that, so it would be like $300. Wylie said if all three do it, yes. Rodgers said if all three did it. Smith said yes.

Smith said so, they’re looking to get a grant for their program for, as a homeowner. Rodgers said and who’s proposing this. Smith said the biophilic committee. Rodgers said oh, okay. Is that like a Clarkston thing, or is that an EGLE [State of Michigan Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy] thing? (Smith made an unintelligible comment.)

Wylie said and they have, what, eight, nine, something like that currently existing? Smith said I don’t think it’s them. There’s five in the city and one in the township. Wylie said okay.

Roth said but they install those at their own expense. Smith said yes.

Rodgers said and so the benefits of having one, other than them being way more beautiful to look at, there’s some type of environmental – Smith said drainage. Roth said drainage. Smith said the idea is to filter the water before it goes into the storm drain. Rodgers said gotcha.

Wylie said and there’s been a lot of interest, I know, in my street. I have one. Across the street they have one. I think one other on the street. And I know somebody else has expressed interest. Because our storm drains, it goes right to the lake. Or drains someplace else, it goes into the lake. So, we’re trying to keep the lake water clean. And I assume that others are, the others maybe for the same reason. Yeah, and they are nice. And they put pollinators in there, pollination, pollinator plants. Is that not the right term? Forte said yeah. Wylie said okay. Roth said but you did not pay for it. Wylie said I did not pay for it. Mine was the first one. Mine was kind of an exploratory one. Rodgers said do you know how it was paid for. Wylie said the city has not, as far as I know, paid for anything, for anybody. They’ve gotten grants for everything. Rodgers said gotcha. Wylie said maybe the homeowners put in a little bit that second round, but not to my recollection. And at the last meeting we voted to, maybe two meetings ago, we voted to have signs put in. And that’s where they’re going on these. They are nice. It takes a while. Mine’s in its third summer, so mine probably looks the nicest. Mine looks really nice. It’s really, I mean, it’s not because of me. It’s because they put in some nice plants. They put in some really nice plants. But I think it’s beautiful right now.

Wylie said anybody else. Smith wants to know if there’s an interest. Anybody besides me have an interest in this on council.

Rodgers said well, I guess my only question would be if, you know, the whole precedent setting thing. If there’s 40 of these around town, do you think that would be an issue? Wylie said we could always say no. Smith said just set an annual cap. Maybe it’s something we can do for a few years. Rodgers said yeah, because it keeps our lakes clean. Wylie said and don’t count on that number. I may have misremembered. Rodgers said yeah, yeah.

Forte said and that’s typical for it to take a few years with those types of plants. Like even with the one out here. That one didn’t look great until it was a few years ago. Wylie said yeah, they were kind of scraggly in the beginning. Forte said yeah, just based on what kind of plants they are.

Rodgers said I mean, when you think about all the traffic that we’ve had, I’m sure that the rainwater that’s going into our lakes is not the cleanest. Forte said they call it phytoremediation. Wylie said phyto. Forte said yeah. Wylie said oh, okay.

Roth said I personally think it’s the homeowner’s responsibility if they want to have one. Casey said what’s that. Roth said if they want to have one in their yard, it would be the homeowner’s expense. Forte said but if it is in the easement, it would make sense. There is a benefit. Wylie said I believe mine’s in the easement. Across the street, it’s in the easement. I think many of them are in the easement. And it does benefit. Roth said I didn’t know that. Wylie said it does benefit the community to help keep the water clean. Because it’s filtering. Because when it rains, the water does mix up with stuff on the road, and oil, any kind of residue that’s there, washes into the lake, and it helps prevent that. Forte said yeah, and there’s studies that prove that as well, especially based on the native plants. Wylie said and I think the biophilic committee has gotten a lot of recognition for piloting this program and doing so much with it.

Wylie said anybody else besides me want to, so Smith’s asking, do we want to consider this? Because right now we’re not voting on anything. He just wants to know if we want to consider a program, if you should bring a resolution to a future meeting.

Rodgers said it would be helpful if maybe some of those studies, if and when you bring a resolution, you can kind of explain it a little bit better about how it works. It sounds like a great environmental asset to us. Forte said you can find those studies on the Landscape Architecture Foundation. You just click the option for either phytoremediation or a lot of brownfields use this sort of method to treat toxins.

Wylie said well, rather than having Smith go through it, we could have the biophilic committee come and make a presentation. Rodgers said yeah, that would be awesome. Yeah, that would be great.

Wylie said okay. (To Smith), do you need to hear anything else on this? Smith said no.

Wylie said does anybody have any questions for Smith on anything else on the city manager’s report.

Quisenberry said just a comment on the green space beautification. All the planning and the work that they did just prior to the 4th of July was really well done. I especially really liked the Veterans Memorial, how they did that with the flowers and the flag and the mulch. I just thought that was very well done and commend them for doing the job they did.

(To Smith), Rodgers said do we know tomorrow I noticed on Independence Township’s agenda they’re voting on the fire police situation. Are you going to that? Smith said I am. Rodgers said okay. Smith said we’ll be going. Wylie said okay. Anybody else interested in going? I don’t know that we have any opportunity to say or do anything. At least it’s not a closed session this time. Smith said no, this is an open session, and I was told we would have the opportunity to speak. Wylie said oh, okay. Smith said it is, my intention is to ask for the floor tomorrow. Rodgers said perfect. Wylie said it’s a 6 o’clock meeting tomorrow at Township Hall. They don’t meet at 7:00.

Wylie said anything else.

No comments.

Wylie said I had a comment to make. About 5 o’clock today we got an email from Richard Bisio, and I was very unhappy about this because they, he had submitted some petitions for a charter amendment, and he says because he has not heard back from the city, he’s filing a complaint against the clerk. Now, the clerk’s brand new. And this all happened since July 2^nd, is when he sent it in. That’s about the very first day she started work. So, it sounds like the city’s dragging its heels on responding to him, and I don’t like to hear about this because we’ve had so many legal issues with them in the past. Why aren’t we responding to them immediately? It sounds like based on what he said, it sounded like the petitions had been approved. I’m not always using the correct language. I was hoping Mr. [Tom] Ryan [city attorney] would be here, but they were, the Bisios were not hearing back from the city about were the correct steps taken.

Smith said well, as he knows, we have 45 days to validate the signatures. Not that we will take that long, but according to state laws pertaining to this, we have 45 days to validate the signatures. We have done that. We have gone through that, and then we turned the signatures and the wording over to Tom Ryan, who has then in turn submitted this to the Attorney General’s office. So, all of that’s in process. I don’t know how long the Attorney General will take to do their piece, get their approval, but we have done our piece. It’s done. I was a little surprised at his comments that we’ve been dragging our feet over the time that we have, but we have not. We’ve completed the validation, and that’s done, and now it’s in the Attorney General’s hands.

Wylie said based on the letter, it sounded like he did not know that the city had done it because either he or his wife had perhaps sent emails asking it, and I know as somebody who submitted petitions last week, if you submit petitions, you get a little bit anxious. Did I get enough signatures? Am I all set? So, I assume that that’s the emotions they’re going through right now. They just needed to hear an answer that things are moving ahead, and I don’t like to be on their bad side. Smith said well, Ryan was out of the office the last week. That’s why he’s not here today. He’s still out of the office today, but he’s back in his office tomorrow. My intent is to talk to him tomorrow, to talk to him about the next steps and how we respond to Richard.

Roth said the question was just whether or not the signatures, enough were valid that were required. Smith said we believe they are. Roth said that’s all I think she was asking. Wylie said that’s what it sounded like. Roth said whether or not the signatures, like when I did my petition, somebody scribbled, and it had to be crossed out. So, whether or not we had enough valid signatures is the question. Smith said I believe there are more than enough. Roth said more than enough, okay. Wylie said okay, thank you.

Wylie said anybody else have any questions or anything else for the city manager?

No comments.

Wylie said okay, then we need to move on.

Agenda Item #8 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:13:39):

• • 06-24-2024 Final Minutes (page 6/34 of the council packet)
  • 07-08-2024 Draft Minutes (page 9/34 of the council packet)
  • 07-22-2024 Treasurer’s Report (page 12/34 of the council packet)
  • 07-18-2024 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period ending 06-30-2024 (page 13/34 of the council packet)
  • Carlisle/Wortman June invoices (page 25/34 of the council packet)

Wylie said we are on Item #8. We need a motion, acceptance of consent agenda as presented for July 22, 2024. This includes the final minutes from June 24^th, the draft minutes from July 8^th, the treasurer’s report from July 22nd, and the documents are attached in our packet. And I need a motion and a second to accept this consent agenda.

Wylie recognized Roth for a question.

Roth said on the draft minutes from July. Wylie said hang on. Let’s do this first and then ask questions.

Motion by Forte; second Roth.

Wylie said now we can do some discussion and recognized Roth for a question.

Roth said just a question on July, yeah, July 8^th. There’s a charge, Align Financial Services, in the amount of $979, professional and contractual services. I just wondered what that was for. Smith said that was for the fencing. Roth said for the drawing. Smith said no, for the fencing to go around. Roth said oh, for the actual. Okay. Thank you. Wylie said and that’s the credit card company, is that correct? Smith said yes. Wylie said I think Mr. Pardee asked, something else came up about that company.

Wylie said anybody else on council have any discussion regarding the consent agenda.

No comments.

Wylie said anybody out there have questions or comments about the consent agenda.

Wylie asked if Roth was okay and recognized her for a comment. Roth said I do have one more. I’m just curious if it’s a line item, code enforcement with Carlisle-Wortman. It was just $24.59, but I’m curious, is that, I can’t imagine what that charge would even be for. Obviously, it’s not a bill for work. Smith said so, that is the code enforcement officer, but she hasn’t been in the office here because she’s waiting for the, as you know, the approval of the ability to write citations. We had to publish that in the paper. I believe that’s taking effect this week. It might be next week. I’ll have to check on the dates. But that’s why she hasn’t been in the office. This charge was for her to be doing something out of the office, and this was a FOIA request. So, she spent some time researching something for a FOIA request. Roth said oh, so that is for work done. Okay, thank you.

Wylie said anything else on the consent agenda and recognized Chet Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said I’ve got a question. Has the code enforcement process begun? Wylie said he just said it’s going to be either this week or next week it’s going to start. Pardee said in the village, we had kind of been suspended, and then we’ve deputized, and I think Ryan has established a schedule of what fines are due, depending upon when the citizens respond. Smith said so, that person hasn’t started yet. They were awaiting this legal approval for them to write citations. So, assuming that takes place this week, I would expect for her to be on the ground doing inspections next week. Pardee said so, will we make the communication to the citizens of Clarkston that this is being done? Smith said I certainly can. It would be the kind thing to do, yes, just letting them know that this is restarted, and you’ll watch your junk cars and your (unintelligible) and your RVs and all these kinds of things. There is a timeline. Pardee said and Ryan has, in fact, provided the proper amount for – Smith said I have not seen it. He has it, but I have not seen it. Pardee said I would expect us to have something like a little (unintelligible) out here and expect us to have a formal communication. I mean, we’re going to upset some people, but everybody ought to know that we’re restarting the process. I think it’s been a year and a half or two years. Smith said well, code enforcement is not new. This is something that they are obligated, all the homeowners are obligated to ensure that they follow the ordinances. The fact that we have not enforced for the last 18 months, 12 months, something like that, I don’t have the exact dates, but the fact that we have not enforced has just been kind of a gift, if you will. It’s time to restart the engines. And I’ll put this in my, we’ll put it on the website, we’ll put it on my weekly email. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else.

No additional comments.

Wylie said okay. Do we do, we have not had a vote on this.

Motion to accept the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said and it is approved.

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (Video time mark 0:18:52):

Wylie said moving on to Item #9, unfinished business.

Item 9a – Resolution: Proposal to Place a Yes/No Referendum on the November 5^th Ballot Re: Single Waste Hauler in the City (Video time mark 0:18:56)

• • Resolution – Single Trash Hauler Referendum on the 11-5-2024 Ballot (page 27/34 of the council packet)
  • Notes From Group in Favor of Single Hauler (page 28/34 of the council packet)
  • Notes From Group Opposed to Single Hauler (page 29/34 of the council packet)

Wylie said under 9a, we have a resolution, proposal to place a yes-no referendum on the November 5^th ballot regarding single-waste hauler in the city. And this is unfinished business because this was tabled from our last meeting. I’m, again, going to read the resolution.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

And as at last meeting, usually we need to make a decision on, we need to have a motion and a second to do this resolution, but because we don’t have a does or does not, we don’t have it completed, I’m going to let the discussion occur first, first among council, and then anybody else who wants to be part of the discussion.

Wylie asked Roth what was wrong. Roth said I’m just thinking about what you were saying. Wylie said oh, we’re going to have discussion first among council. Roth said right. Wylie said and at that point, somebody can make a motion to complete that, that the City of the Village of Clarkston either does not wish to include a referendum or does not. That will be done later. And if anybody would like to start.

Roth said I will. Wylie recognized Roth for a comment.

Roth said okay, I talked to Gary Wall, who is the supervisor of Waterford Township, and my husband spoke with, he had a meeting with Chris Barnett, so I had him ask some questions, and Ryan had spoken with him also. He thinks that the way to go is with the single hauler. He said they did five years – Wylie said and Chris Barnett is Lake Orion. Roth said I’m sorry. Chris Barnett is Lake Orion. Wylie said okay. Roth said Gary Wall said this is the best thing they had done for Waterford Township. They had a lot of complaining before, but he said since it’s been implemented, people are now calling back and saying it is a wonderful idea. He said they started it five years ago. Priority is what they went with. Priority bought out GFL. When that happened, I guess they didn’t know, but the equipment that came along with that, a lot of it was garbage, and so they have spent a lot of time trying to get that going. So, there’s been a lot of problems along the way. But he says as they’re cleaning it up, along with those two, also Holly, White Lake, Highland, West Bloomfield, and Commerce also did the same thing. So, the overall consensus is this is really good. And I have to say, I was coming back from the meeting. It was at the Oakland Airport, and they had all their trash cans out all down the side streets, and I thought how nice to know it’s one day, it’s done. It’s a very clean way to do it.

(To Roth), Rodgers said do you know are those, the citizens’ payment, are those all individual contracts for these different communities, or are they like tied to taxes or tied to something? Roth said I did not ask that, but I can certainly follow up. I did notice when I returned a phone call, when you go through, they tell you press this for this. They do have a press this for inquires about trash removal or comments. So, I’m sure it is going to add to the workload. But overall, they just said it’s cleaner, the rumbling of traffic, obviously less impact on the roads. But he did say they had, it was a bit of a transition, and in the beginning, they had a lot of complaints. But all of these communities have all done it, and they think it’s a really, really good way to go.

(To Smith), Rodgers said do you know if they’re tied to anything. Because that’s my biggest, like, it’s not necessarily even a concern, but question, is that if the answer is yes, then what’s our obligation? Is that a yes vote to yes, then we need to look into it? Or yes, then we need to make it happen? And if it’s not tied to anything, if I start to, if like the transition is a little difficult, which I would think anything of that magnitude would be, if right from the get-go somebody says, I don’t like this service, I’m not doing it, then what’s going to happen? Because they’re not, they sign a contract individually with the company. So, if they don’t like it, what’s to stop them from stopping that contract? And if you get too many people doing that, then, you know, it kind of defeats the whole issue.

Smith said so, I spoke with Rochester Hills. They did this 15 years ago, they tell me. I didn’t think it was that long, but that’s what they say. And like Roth heard, they were extremely happy with it. It’s been a great thing to do. But when I asked them about the price and how the pricing and how the payments work, so their price is $50 a quarter, $50.10 a quarter, plus recycling, which brings it to $57.90 a quarter. And if any of you shopped around for trash services, including, that’s pretty cheap, that’s a good price. They also, on top of that, they offer discounts for seniors and vets, and snowbirds can get a once-a-year credit. I know I’m not answering your question. Rodgers said it’s okay, I know you’ll get to it. Smith said addressing some other questions that came up last month. Snowbirds can get a once-a-year credit for $30. That’s just a one-time thing, that’s it. For disabled residents, they have an agreement that they will come to your side door of your house or whatever door you pick, so you don’t have to haul your cans out to the curb. So, for somebody that can’t do that, they will come to the side of your house. So, these are all services that they will include.

Smith said but they made it very clear residents cannot opt out. So, they passed an ordinance that basically says that every resident will participate in this program. If you don’t want to use it, you say, well, I take my trash to work every day, I don’t need service at my house, that’s fine, but you’re still going to pay. That’s just the way it has to be. They say you cannot start down this road if somebody gets out, so everybody must pay. If they don’t pay, and they do pay directly, let me back up, they pay directly to the trash service that has been selected. They don’t pay the city. And if they don’t pay the trash service, then periodically, I don’t know if it’s once a year or twice a year, the trash company notifies the city, in this case Rochester Hills, notifies them that these eight houses are delinquent, they haven’t paid their bill. The city then sends that homeowner a bill, a statement, a (unintelligible), saying you owe this. If you don’t pay this, we’re going to put it on your tax roll. So eventually it does go on your taxes. If you don’t pay your taxes, well, you know what happens then. So, it does have the enforcement of the city’s ordinances and laws and that if you don’t pay it, it will go on to your taxes.

Rodgers said so, this is kind of, we’re wanting to know, are you interested. But then ultimately, there’s going to have to be a lot more public – Smith said absolutely – (continuing), Rodgers said before we say yes, because they’re going to have to know all of that. Smith said absolutely. Rodgers said do they need to know that as part of the ballot question now? Should they know that? Should we put that in the language? Smith said yeah, I think the ballot has to have more than, are you in favor of a single trash hauler. Rodgers said right, I agree. Smith said absolutely, it has to have some more background information on what this would kind of entail. But I realize that the wording of this now, therefore be it resolved, does not state the fact that I think it should, is that this was just to initiate an investigation. This wasn’t like, oh, if they vote 51%, 51-49 in favor, we do it the next day. No, this starts an investigation, and all these details that we just talked about, and more, lots more, have to be worked out.

Smith said it’s going to be a Ryan effort to get all the legalities included in this contract. For example, Rochester Hills says they were so thankful with GFL at the last minute, kind of unannounced, turning their company over, they’re selling out, at least a portion of their company to Priority. That was very problematic, and they’re really reeling from this. But if they hadn’t had the teeth in their agreement, it would have been a whole different story. So, they said, we’re very thankful that we had the agreement we did because it really will hold up in court should it become that, but Priority is kicking in, starting to do the service, and so they were very optimistic that things would work out well with Priority. But there’s a lot of details, is my point to this contract, that we can’t begin to get into now. We would have to, I would think it would take the better part of a year to get all those details brought to the surface, even though we have some good templates from other cities to use as a template. I think we would have to have some public hearing sessions, hear our residents, maybe our residents have different needs and wants than Rochester Hills or Orion Township or Waterford. There’s a lot of successful programs out there that we can cut and paste from. No harm and no disrespect in doing that. Let’s get what the best have done, but I think we would also want to have some sessions with our residents and talk to them. What kind of features do they want?

Roth said and just by note, they did not take it to a vote. They did this, an executive decision. Rodgers said interesting. Quisenberry said Waterford or Rochester. Roth said Waterford Township. I didn’t talk to Mr. Barnett. I don’t remember his first name. Smith said Chris. Roth said no, not Chris. His brother. An unidentified person said Rochester. Smith said Rochester, Chris’s brother. Smith said Brian Barnett in Rochester. Chris is in Orion Township.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions or comments. Quisenberry said yes. Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said so, roughly $600 per year plus, over that, per year, if it’s going to be $57 a month or whatever. Smith said that’s a quarter. Quisenberry said a quarter. Okay, I said a month. $200, $300. And somebody that only lives here, has a residence here for six months, they’re going to get a $30 credit, and that’s it. So, they’re going to be paying for this service for, you know, I guess I want to back up, because this is Rochester Hills’s model, and there’s 20 other different models. Rodgers said you don’t have to do that. Quisenberry said Ortonville has a, their regulation on trash pickup is you can have whoever you want, but trash pickup is only allowed on Monday. So, if you want to do business in the Village of Ortonville, then you have your trucks, and they can have three, four, five different companies come in, and you’re still only doing one day. But you get to pick, all right? So, there’s a lot of different models. I think it’s kind of way, way premature to try to sit there and dissect the pluses and minuses to Rochester Hills, because that’s a model we don’t need to even assume we’re going to get. I’m just, with Rodgers, just a little concerned about if we throw it on there, depending upon what it says, then what is our obligation to then follow up on?

(To Smith), Rodgers said I think your point to, I don’t know if you said something about changing this, but that it’s just, would you like us to begin an investigation into – Smith said investigation – (continuing), Rodgers said  single hauler or single day trash pickup – Wylie said before we make a big commitment – Rodgers said before we make a big commitment to – Lamphier said but is council going to be the one to make that decision? Smith said ultimately. Rodgers said ultimately, yes.

Wylie said my big issue is all the trucks, all the traffic, all the weight the trucks are putting on the city streets. That one-day collection, that’s a pretty nice way of doing things. We’ve done things like that before. We said people who are sealing your driveway, you have to use certain kinds of products. Rodgers said because it puts the onus on the company and not on the consumer.

Roth said but also, I will follow up on your question about how long did it take for the transition, because I would be curious. I can’t imagine it would take a year, but – Wylie said well, a year for us to get it together. Roth said no, I know, yeah. Wylie said well, I can see it taking a year. Smith said it shouldn’t take that long, but I think it deserves that much time to get all the details worked out. Roth said but it seems also the language on the ballot should be simpler than putting all the details of what could be when we don’t really know if it even will be. Smith said yeah, I think it would just be very important to say that this is a kick-off of an investigation. There’s a lot of different options. Roth said right. Smith said here are lots of models that we could go to and pick the best. $30 for a snowbird credit, that’s not much. Wylie said it’s not much. Smith said maybe we say that’s $100, so whatever, but we can specify what that amount would be.

Wylie said my biggest concerns have been, it was the snowbirds, the people who are paying for trash collection when they’re not here. And the other one is, when we originally talked about this with the Township, and I was under the impression, I think everybody was under the impression, that the Township would take on the bulk of managing this program. I’m very concerned about our city staff managing things. And I realize that the city, the collection people would be doing a lot of the work, but even just, let’s say 10 people a year don’t pay their bill, that’s 10 more things that the city has to take care of. And I think in many ways, our city staff is stretched very tight. Smith said you know, we don’t disagree with you. I think that’s a major concern. When I called Orion Township, and I pushed the button for trash bills, it took me to Priority. Roth said okay. Smith said that’s who answered the phone. It was not, you know, Joe Blow in the procurement office of Orion Township. Roth said that’s interesting. Smith said no, it was Priority. Wylie said but still, if they don’t get – Roth said that’s good (unintelligible comment from Quisenberry) – (continuing), Wylie said what the answer they want, they may still go, you know, they’re going to call Smith and Evelyn [Bihl, administrative assistant] and Ashley, they’re going to go to those people and say, you know what, I just got off the phone with TNR, or Community, or whoever, and I didn’t get the answer I wanted. I want you guys to make it right. It’s still not, and just that nine months, one year planning, I think that’s another thing. I like Ortonville. I’ve never heard of that before.

Rodgers said so, could we change this to say, you know, we want to ask them if they wish to include a referendum on November 5, 2024, to ask residents if they are or are not in favor of a beginning investigation of single trash hauler, a single trash day in the city or something like that? Can we change it to make, so that everyone knows it’s not like a done deal that it’s going to happen, but we’re going to investigate it and then it’ll be up for discussion and vote again, right? Am I understanding that correctly, do you think?

Wylie said so, should we make a motion? Anybody who would like to make a motion can make a motion, and if you do, include the wording either does or does not wish to include a referendum.

Forte said okay, I’ll make a motion and I’ll choose does. Wylie said does. Forte said and I’d like to include the language that Rodgers just mentioned. Wylie said okay, you have to be specific because – Rodgers said does wish to include a referendum on November 5, 2024, election ballot to ask residents if they are or are not in favor of an investigation into single trash hauler/single day hauler trash pickup in the city. Forte said yes, that was great.

(To Ashley), Wylie asked did you get that. So, it’s the same thing except she added after single trash hauler or single day hauler in the city, is that correct? Rodgers agreed.

Wylie said okay, I’ve got, Forte has resolved and I need a second. Second Roth.

Wylie said any discussion from anybody on council.

No comments.

Wylie said okay, anybody out there would like to bring this up.

Pardee raised his hand. Wylie said and if you don’t mind, I’d appreciate it if you come up and stand at the podium. And again, you do not have to say who you are, that’s entirely optional.

Pardee said good evening. I’m Chet Pardee. (Pardee provided his address.) Pardee said first of all, I don’t think that Rochester Hills did a very good job negotiating. I pay $30 a quarter, and the other three residents of the condo complex that I live in also pay $30 a quarter. So, the 50-some dollars that, anyhow. So, and I will be very noisy about anybody insisting that I pay more. So, that was not on my list.

Pardee said so, I said to Smith and all the city officials, what’s the expected impact on your workload if citizens say yes to single hauler? And so that’s what I’m worried about. I know that Smith’s full up now. And I asked, for instance, what work will be required to develop and implement a single hauler? I heard Smith say over a year. What will need to not be done for that period of time? What is going to have to be pushed to the side because we’re focused on single hauler? Will all capital projects in the current budget be implemented? Will a plan to replace sidewalks on West Miller Road still be developed if people say yes? And what progress will occur on the repair plan of the seven paver sections if, in fact, we add this to Jonathan’s list? So those are number one.

Pardee said you’ve heard me before say that I believe that Smith’s objectives should be completing the capital projects that were presented by Smith and Greg [Coté, treasurer] and approved by the finance committee in a year. We haven’t done that. I don’t think we’ve ever done that since 2017. So, something gets pushed off. So, and, you know, the Miller Road, Smith’s already communicated in a meeting that the Miller Road repaving that’s in the current budget will not include the 38 cracked sections of sidewalk on West Miller. And three years ago, or four years ago, the seven paver sections were number one on our list to get done for safety reasons. And we’ve, Ryan (unintelligible) since then, it’s easier to file a trip and fall now than it was four years ago. So, I’m really concerned about what Smith is not going to do if, in fact, citizens say yes.

Wylie said thank you, Mr. Pardee. Would anybody else like to make a comment?

Wylie recognized Thomas Swayne for a comment.

Swayne said so, I had a chance to talk to several of the communities, as Smith did and Roth. Both Barnett brothers are actually pretty good friends of mine, so I’ve talked to them extensively. I didn’t talk to one community that found that it was a bad thing, right. None of them. And also, one of the big impacts on it was Lake Orion has 12,000, I forget how many homes, around 12,000, just over 12,000 homes that they, garbage trucks go to. I believe the village has 450, somewhere around there. Smith said 300. Swayne said 300. Okay. I thought it was around 400. Okay, that even makes it, the Orion Township, for the whole thing, all 12,000 stops, uses eight trucks. That means Clarkson could use one truck. One truck and one truck in the summer. All the same trash cans, all the same, everything. It’s very, if you drive down their streets, I went and took some snapshots of their streets, all the same garbage cans. I’m not trying to make this Smallville either. That’s not it. That’s not the point. But it does look very nice. The receptacles are nice. They’re not recycling, blowing all over the streets. It’s one truck for the whole city, for our whole village. That’s big. And I’m not trying to make, I know Quisenberry said something about government. I understand. I’m not a big, to make government larger. But this is a community, and sometimes you need to do what’s best for the community. And if we feel like that isn’t, and people vote on it, then that can come forth. It’s not always about, oh, let’s not make it. Because if it’s not good, we can always vote it back out. This isn’t the federal government where a program goes in and we can never get rid of it. Rodgers said good point. Wylie said thank you, Mr. Swayne.

Rodgers said I think to that point, too, Smith’s reaction to this, or all of our reaction to this, was brought to us by somebody in the City of the Village. So, it’s not like something that just, you know, you were sitting there and thought, oh, I’m going to bring this up. Like, I’m going to add this to my work list, you know, to Pardee’s comments. It was something that citizens have been talking about and somebody brought it to the podium. So, I think that’s why it’s even here. I think it was Tom [Lowry] that brought it that day. So, you know, we do have a ton of other issues we need to continue to work on and need to make priorities, but, you know, there are times when somebody brings something up and it’s our duty as elected people to figure out what, how to answer to it.

(Roth and Forte gestured.) (To Roth), Wylie said did you say you want to go ahead. Roth said I think I just went like that (gesturing).

Forte said whatever works. What I was going to say is, like, I like that this is going to the people to decide because even in my household, like, I’m for this, but my husband’s against this. So, like, I think it’s great that we’re going to let the village decide because even in households, like, there’s both perspectives.

Wylie asked Quisenberry if he had a comment. Quisenberry said I do.

Quisenberry said understanding that whatever the results of a poll or a ballot would be, we’re not binding on what that asks or what that says, 51 to 49 or whatever it is, 75/25. We’re not binding by it. Thinking about this, I’m wondering, why are we messing with a ballot proposal instead of just unilaterally as a municipal government looking into this and say, we want to look into this, let’s do this, and once we find out what all these different options are, a hybrid type of a plan that we think is going to fit our community, then we can go ahead and decide this is the plan that we think we want, that we think is best for us, this is the one that we want to do, and then ask them. Because we’re asking the citizens to buy a pig in a poke, not really knowing what it is they’re going to be saying yes or no to when, especially if there’ve been some communities that have just gone ahead and unilaterally done research to find out, do we want to do it, and if we do, here is the best plan that we think that we can come up with, and then we can go with it. Why mess with a ballot proposal when, one, it’s not binding, and when it’s done, it’s going to put us exactly where we are right now in trying to now, then develop a plan? We can look and develop the plan now.

Wylie said are you suggesting then develop a plan and then put it on a ballot? Or develop a plan and let city council decide? Quisenberry said well, either way. Wylie said either way. Quisenberry said either way. The council has the authority to unilaterally pass a plan if we come up with it, or we can say, we don’t really want to do this. Let’s throw this out to the people and say, here’s the best plan that we came up with that we think will work in this community. Do you want to do this or not? And it’s going to have to then spell out everything about the snowbirds, everything about suppose I don’t need one. I don’t want one at all because my brother-in-law has a construction company. I can throw my stuff in his. So, I don’t even want it. I won’t use it, but I’m going to have to pay for it. You’re going to have to answer all those questions either after the ballot or now. They’re all going to have to be answered, so I don’t understand the purpose of putting it out on the ballot rather than just going and making a plan to do it.

Wylie said I’m putting words in your mouth. My guess is, again, we have a small staff, and this is a big commitment for the staff, which is mostly going to be Smith doing the work, to put together a plan if people end up not wanting it. So, I think it’s trying to explore, do people want it? Is it worth investing the time to find this out? And because it’s been around, what, how many years have people been questioning? Wylie said we’ve had a lot of meetings about this – Roth said a long time – (continuing), Wylie said and I don’t think any kind of consensus was ever reached. That’s what I think.

Smith said that is it exactly. Historically, when we talked about this, it was two or three or four years ago. Roth said more than that. Smith said maybe it was longer than that. And we bantered it back and forth. We heard a lot about the pros and cons, and you don’t want to do this, or you do want to do this. And I thought just as a way of, you know, finding out once and for all from our voters, what do they want? We talked about doing a survey, but then some people said, well, don’t you know, you’ll maybe get 20% if you’re lucky, 20% respondents to a survey. And that’s time-consuming to put all that together, and then it just was the thought of a way of just kind of getting us off the starting block. Do we even want to pursue this? But if you think amongst you, you think that there is enough value, it’s just doing the investigation in advance and getting all this together, and then either making at that time, making a decision amongst yourselves or taking it to the voters, whichever, we can do it that way. Absolutely. But we just wanted to get some kind of data that says 51 are in favor or 51 are against. We just don’t really have any good data right now.

Lamphier said I think, though, if we ask the question, is everybody interested in a single hauler, I would think probably 100% of the people would say yes. Yeah, we want one hauler one day, one company, one truck, or whatever it takes. But what is it, you know, what is the result of that? I mean, you know, I think everybody would probably agree to one hauler.

Rodgers said interestingly enough, though, last week there was a guy that stood up and was like absolutely. Lamphier said but if it was what you were willing to pay, you thought it was a good price.

Tony Detkowski said he’s with TNR Disposal. That’s what I said. Wylie said oh, are you Mr. Detkowski? Detkowski said I am. Wylie said welcome.

(To Rodgers), Roth said what did you say again. Rodgers said what did I say. Wylie said she said there was a gentleman who spoke up last week who was opposed to a single. Rodgers said oh, last week there was a gentleman who was opposed to it.

(To Detkowski), Wylie said would you like to get up and say something. Detkowski said sure. Wylie said are you Tony. Detkowski said I’m Tony. Wylie said Detkowski is my trash collector.

Detkowski said my name is Tony Detkowski. I own TNR Disposal. I’ve been doing this my whole life. It’s the only thing I’ve ever done. My father started the company, Clarkston Disposal. I could bid on the city. That’s not a problem. Three or four hundred stops is not a problem. The problem I have is when the big companies cut it so much, they don’t make any money. That’s why GFL sold out. They weren’t making any money. They’re losing money. Actually, they’re laughing about Priority buying it because it’s like, we weren’t making money. How are they going to make money? What you’re doing. I was at a couple of the other meetings before that. I’m an independent. It’s my life. My living. My kids. I’m in this a long time. I hate to be out of business. I mean, I lost stops in Waterford, Lake Orion.

They didn’t let the people decide. They just decided on their own. Doing one day, I mean, that’s a good idea, sure. If you just went one day, people got to choose who they wanted. We have trucks. There’s basically two companies. Us and Community. Waste Management is in here also. But like, I know in Ortonville, when they went to one day, Waste Management pulled out. So, I think just Community and myself. But like I say, I just, you know, I understand people don’t like trucks on the road. But, you know, garbage is garbage. It can be picked up. I think we do a decent job. I mean, there’s days we don’t. It’s one of the things that’s got to be done. There’s three trucks going down the road. In the wintertime, they’ll cut down to two because you don’t have to do compost. But, you know, all houses, if they do all three things, it’s, get three trucks there.

Wylie said so you guys were able to manage Ortonville’s single day? Detkowski said yeah, one day a week we go to Ortonville. Wylie said okay. Detkowski said and like I say, I mean, I don’t have a problem with one day. I mean, I live on Clintonville Road. You know, I’m local. I went to Clarkston schools, grew up here, you know. Every township and city keeps taking away small business. They’re all going to the big ones because they can, you know, do it at a cheaper price.

Lamphier said and then they don’t get the service that they get because they can’t afford it. Detkowski said if you ask the people in Waterford, I get calls every day, can you come and pick my garbage? I can’t. The township officials say, oh, yeah, everything’s good. Ask the people that are having the problems. When Priority took over GFL, they had people there daily checking on trucks and all that and their excuse why they’re not getting stuff done is because the trucks were bad. They knew in advance they were bad. You know, so they just make stuff up to bypass it until they can get it straightened out. Any other questions?

Wylie said I just have a comment. I remember back those years ago when these discussions were taking place and even our last meeting was brought up that hopefully we can do something without hurting TNR and Community. I wasn’t aware if there was any other local companies. Detkowski said there’s no other locals. I’m the only one in Independence Township that handles all three services, residential, commercial, industrial. Community’s out of Flint, and Waste Management’s nationwide.

Wylie said anybody on council have questions for Mr. Detkowski.

Roth said you were at the meeting at the library. Detkowski said I was. Roth said yeah, I remember you (unintelligible). Detkowski said yeah, I try to go to all of them if I can.

Forte said do you guys offer different services rather than big companies. Detkowski said I do a lot of stuff. Somebody said something about going up for elderly people. I do that already. Already, no extra charge or nothing. We sell garbage cans. We have dumpsters. We have commercial stuff, special cleanups. We give them a large item a quarter for no charge. Stuff like that.

Roth said how many homes are in Ortonville. Detkowski said I’m not 100% sure. I do about 50 of them. I’m not sure how many there are exactly. But, I mean, we average 400 houses a day per truck. So, you know, this is a one-day. We do it one day. And, like I say, there would be, you know, three trucks, but we all do it one day. Wylie thanked Detkowski. Detkowski said you’re welcome.

Wylie said I kind of cut off everybody else before. Is there anybody else out there who would like to make a comment or question?

Wylie recognized Leah McLean for a comment. Yes, in the stand. I’m sorry. I’d like you to stand, please. Again, introduction is optional.

Leah McLean said so, how does it work for commercial? How does it work for businesses? Like, are the businesses then obligated as well to pick, to have, I mean, I don’t know how this works. Do they? Smith said they’ll all tell you, all the communities that have done this, they will all tell you we don’t touch commercial, and we don’t touch apartment buildings. Wylie said oh, that’s interesting. Leah McLean said so, you’re going to have, you’re still going to have other companies coming through. Just so we’re all clear, right? Potentially? Rodgers said potentially. Leah McLean said so, and then I really appreciate this gentleman speaking (gesturing). I haven’t thought about how I would feel about this until sitting here, and I have mixed emotions. Part of me feels like someone like the Pardees, I would want them to have the benefit of, they’re not here half the year. And then I look, and I think, I’d love to support local and maybe pay a little bit more. Maybe I’m crazy. Wylie said less. They’re cheap. Leah McLean said or you pay less. Wylie said pay less. Leah McLean said okay. Even better. So, I’m just being really honest. It’s like, I love the idea that we know the people who are serving our community and there’s a face (gesturing). So, and I use Community right now, which I understand now is out of Flint and it’s do they do a good job? They seem to, but I haven’t shopped around either. So, anyway, I just wanted to ask that question. Wylie said thank you, Mrs. McLean.

Wylie said is there anybody else out there who would like to speak.

No comments.

Wylie said or anybody else on council.

Pardee raised his hand. Wylie said you’ve got like 10 seconds left to talk. Pardee said I wanted to compliment TNR. We switched to them several years ago. I said, we can bring our trash to the curb, which is M15. And Nicole, his daughter, said, no, no, no, it’s better if we make that loop closer to your house, there’s a half circle, and because we don’t want our people on M15 throwing trash into the truck. Wylie said thank you. Pardee said caring about their people.

Wylie recognized Lily McLean.

(Walking to the podium) Lily McLean said my question is – Wylie said I know it’s annoying to get up there, but it helps keep things orderly. Lily McLean said so, what exactly would the question on the ballot be? Is it just are you or are you not in favor of a single trash hauler in the city? Wylie said I think we’re talking about more details. Smith said right. It would have more details. The ultimate question would be yes or no. Are you in favor or not? That would be the ultimate question. But there would be a lot of backup detail before we got to that question. Lily McLean said okay, I had just understood that we didn’t have that information yet, so that wasn’t going to be – Smith said well, not like contractual level of that. That’s another whole analysis. But some of the basic questions that we just talked about here tonight, those would be on the ballot spelled out what this would mean. Lily McLean said okay. That was just my question. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else on council or in our audience.

Quisenberry said yeah, I think that Lamphier raised a very good point about whether the ballot itself. It’s such a nebulous question. Everybody’s going to say, yeah, we want fewer trucks, we want this or whatever, until you get down to the devil in the details. And that’s when they’re going to want to say yay or nay. And I don’t think that we are, we can put a ballot proposal out there explaining all the details so that a resident can be informed and say yes, I want it or no, I don’t. And we’re going to be then saddled with an overwhelming response in the affirmative to follow through with it. But then once you throw in all these different concerns in here, now we’re back to trying to resolve an issue based upon an affirmative mandate from the voters when I think what we would be better served doing is coming up with a plan that we think is the best hybrid for our community that is going to say, do we want it to be just a single day, or do we want, and how are we going to work the snow, how are we going to work the people that want to opt out, are you going to be allowed to opt out on it, throw all that in there and say, this is the work that we’ve done and this is what we think is probably the best proposal to throw out. Do you want to do this or not?

Forte said then should we put that to a vote if we want to as a city council. Quisenberry said either as, either throw it out to the citizens and let them vote or we can vote on it ourselves.

Roth said it does seem like it’s too much wordiness to put in a ballot. Forte said yeah.

Wylie said I’m going to call for a vote in just a minute, but before I do, does anybody have anything else they want to say before we vote?

No comments.

Wylie said I’m going to vote no on it, and I want to say why I’m going to vote no on it. I’m going to vote no because I would like to investigate a single day trash collection rather than a single hauler.

Wylie said so, I’m going to call for a vote now. Ashley, would you do the roll call, please?

Wylie voted no.

Wylie said and by the way, that means if you vote no, this is a vote that, the way this says it does – Rodgers said we have a single hauler (unintelligible) – (continuing), Wylie said does wish to include a referendum on the November 5^th, 2024, election ballot to ask residents if they are or are not in favor of a single trash hauler. I am saying no to that. Rodgers said no, we added single trash hauler or a single day hauler. Wylie said okay, or a single day. I’m still saying no.

Casey said so, it’s are not. Rodgers said no. Wylie said we’re asking the residents if they are or not. I am saying no to this particular resolution – (Casey made an unintelligible comment) – (continuing), Wylie said which means I do not want to see that on the ballot. Rodgers said because you agree with Quisenberry that you think we should have a whole proposal first. Wylie said no, as I just said, because my choice would be to go, to investigate doing a single day collection. Rodgers said but that’s part of the – Wylie said I understand that. Rodgers said okay. Wylie said I understand that. Rodgers said all right.

Lamphier voted no.

Forte said I’m so confused here.

Wylie said okay, hang on one second. There’s still some confusion. The resolution states that the City of the Village of, city council of the City of the Village of Clarkson does wish to include a referendum on the November 5th, 2024, election ballot to ask residents if they are or are not in favor of a single trash hauler or a single day hauler in the city. I am saying no, I don’t want that referendum on the ballot. That’s basically what I’m saying. So, you can say yes, that means you are in favor of saying that on the ballot. Rodgers said no, I understand that. I’m confused about your reasoning. Wylie said well, okay. I was asking Forte since she was still confused. Does that help? Forte said kind of. So, if you say no to it, this topic can come back on the agenda – Wylie said yes, oh yeah, we can talk about it– (continuing), Forte said just through – Quisenberry said and we can still proceed through with trying to come up with a plan. Forte said OK. Wylie said but I don’t want to see this on the ballot. Roth said just more investigation. Forte said okay. Casey said no more going on the ballot. Forte said okay.

Wylie said okay, so go ahead Ashley.

Casey voted no.

Rodgers voted yes. Wylie said she said yes.

Roth voted no.

Forte voted yes.

Quisenberry voted no.

(To Lamphier), Wylie said to clarify, you said no, is that correct? Lamphier said I said no. Wylie said okay.

Wylie said and so we’ve got two votes for yes, and the resolution is defeated. And we can still talk about this in the future. We can do something else. We can do something, we can drop it all. We can do something Quisenberry considered. We can talk about single-day trash collection. Anything we want. Okay. Because I don’t think it’s going to go away. Because, again, I’m still in favor of keeping trash haulers on the city streets just one day a week.

Wylie said okay. We are on, we’re still in – Detkowski said can I add something? Wylie said yes, yes. Detkowski said you guys want me to participate in anything? Wylie said we would love that. Thank you. Quisenberry said to do what? Wylie said to participate in something in the future. So, we’ll make sure that you are contacted the next time we have it on our agenda. Detkowski said okay. Wylie said thank you.

Pardee said I think what Detkowski said is he could do it in one day. Wylie said I know, I heard that. Roth said that’s what he said. Wylie said yeah. (Pardee made an unintelligible comment.)

Item 9b – Discussion: Status of Pony Cycle Installation in Depot Park (Video time mark 1:03:01):

Wylie said okay, so we’re still on unfinished business. We’re now on Item 9b, discussion, status of pony cycle installation in Depot Park. And I don’t know, do we have anything in our packet about that? Forte said no, we don’t. Wylie said okay.

Smith said no, and I was not able to reach Terry today, Terry Hawke. Wylie said oh, okay. Smith said I talked to him over the holiday, and he says that a prototype is coming along, but it hasn’t even gone to paint yet. So, he says, I really don’t have something to show you just yet. He knows he needs to bring in a prototype into (unintelligible) council meeting and show it to you to see if you are okay with it. But he’s not at that point. So, there’s really nothing to show you, nothing to talk about, but we’re still working on it. Wylie said okay.

Wylie said all right, 9c – Roth said I do want to ask a question about this if it’s appropriate. Wylie said to go ahead.

Wylie said this letter. Roth said yeah, where did it come from. (To Smith), Wylie said do you know anything about why we have letters about a police, national movement, quality of life policing methods? Do you know who dropped that off or why it’s here? Anything about it? Smith said no. Ashley said came in the mail, and Smith asked me to give one to each one of the council members. Wylie said okay. All right. Roth said where did it come from? Ashley said I don’t know. It was just in an envelope. Casey said no return address. Ashley said no. Wylie said okay. Quisenberry said just give it the appropriate attention. Wylie said yeah.

Item 9c – Discussion: Status of City Manager’s Performance Review (Video time mark 1:04:37):

Wylie said all right, so we are now on unfinished business. C, discussion status of city manager’s performance review, and I think Quisenberry, you asked this to be on the, is that what you wanted? Maybe I’m wrong. Did you ask to have this on the agenda? Quisenberry said I did. Wylie said okay.

Quisenberry said I just wondered. I know that the council appointed a committee. I was just wondering what the status of all this was, what the – Wylie said we met, and it was myself and Derek Werner and Gary Casey, and Smith already has a copy of these (passing out paperwork), and it took us a long time. Roth said oh, good. Wylie said here, take one and pass it down.

Wylie said partly because I got sick during that time period, so we were meeting, and then I was kind of out of it. But we started off by looking at different methods. We started with looking at what the MML [Michigan Municipal League], what they suggested, and they had a number of different templates, but almost all the templates were the same source, and we all looked up other methods of city manager performance. A lot of them, what they did is they gave a similar form to everybody on council and had them fill it out. We chose the City of Durand’s method, which is very similar to this. There was a few changes we made here and there, but we graded or evaluated the manager on unsatisfactory, satisfactory performance, outstanding performance, or things that did not apply or felt like they did not have enough information. We had some comments and suggestions, and there were some compromises that had to take place. We didn’t agree on everything, but this is what we came up with, so that’s what we presented to Smith, because he had requested about the time that I was made mayor that he wanted to make sure that, he said he had never been evaluated.

Quisenberry said and this view is pretty much Durand’s model. Wylie said well, there was at least ten different cities we saw using this, some form of this, and there was always a few little differences, and I couldn’t tell you now what it was about Durand’s that, I know I like Durand, and I can’t remember now if it was Casey or Werner who also, the first time we met, we came up with different options, and somebody else also liked Durand.

Roth said so, you didn’t go beyond the D. Wylie said go beyond the D. Roth said E, there’s nothing – Quisenberry said there is nothing under E. Roth said yeah. Wylie said oh, as I kept going. (Casey made an unintelligible comment.) Wylie said oh, I’m sorry. I did not look at what I printed up. Casey said we did fill it in. Wylie said we did, it was all filled in. Casey said we did do it. Wylie said now I’m embarrassed. Forte said what do you mean? Wylie said there’s no rating. It was rated. I guess I’ll have to bring it to you next time, because I didn’t, I didn’t look at this. I printed them up this afternoon and just brought what, (to Smith), did you get one? Do you have it? Smith said my version has it all. Wylie said his version has it all. So, we’ll get that copied up and bring it to everybody.

Casey said do you want to collect these back? Wylie said sure. Well, I apologize because I didn’t look at what I had. Roth said so, we’ll comment next time you bring them back? Wylie said yeah, yeah.

Wylie said is there anything else? (To Casey), can you remember anything else we talked about or that came up in the discussions? Casey said no. I think the document, once we get the completed one, is going to speak for itself. Wylie said okay.

Quisenberry said then can we get it before the day of the next meeting – Wylie said sure – (continuing), Quisenberry said when it’s going to be talked about, so we get a chance to review it? Wylie said sure.

Forte said is this an annual report. Wylie said this was the very first time it was done. Smith said he had never been reviewed previously. Forte said okay, but will it be an annual report? Wylie said it can be. It’s up to council. I kind of like the idea of having everybody on council do it, and what some cities were doing, I thought it was kind of nice, each person did it and gave it to the city manager. We did it, the three of us each did it, and then we tried to put together one document. So we said, well, I gave it one, I gave it three, and we discussed different reasons for different scores. But I kind of like the idea of every individual doing it, and then the city manager gets that.

Forte said and is that typical. I’m sorry if you already said that, of other cities. Wylie said almost every city that we looked at had something very similar. Forte said okay. But has, like, the city council. Wylie said oh, that, there was a lot. I couldn’t tell. I don’t remember now if it was typical, but a lot of them did have that. But it was always something done by city council. I never saw any, some method was used by city council. City council always did the evaluating. I never saw any outside sources. There might have been, no, it was always city council. I can’t think of any other method that was used.

Smith said typically, they somehow reach out to the residents, because those are the people I’m working with every day. So, you may not see me in these roles, but the vast majority of my day, daily activity is working with residents. Casey said it’s what now – Smith said it’s working with residents that come in.

Forte said and how do they go about that. Smith said I don’t know. That’s a good question. How do they reach out to, maybe each council member reaches out to a couple residents and says, hey, what do you think about the city manager? How’s he doing on this or doing that? Forte said yeah. Smith said just a way of getting that other perspective that you may not have. Forte said okay.

(To Quisenberry), Wylie said again, I apologize. I apologize. I know you wanted to see this.

Wylie said okay, moving on to – (Pardee raised his hand.) Forte said Pardee has a question.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a question.

Pardee said I was asking Smith in the communication – (unintelligible crosstalk on council) – (continuing), Pardee said whether or not the performance review that you were asking for was this kind of thing, or was it similar to your experience at Chrysler? Smith said typically, what I’ve seen out of city managers, certainly there’s a strategic aspect of it, which is a lot of what’s in here, is the strategic efforts that you’re making. But what you’re referring to is a little bit more of a goal-setting at the first of the year. So, January 1^st you set your goals. On December 31st, you measure against those goals. Did you get them done? That aspect, I have not seen in too many other cities. I haven’t been able to find an example of that. Maybe there’s one or two big projects. But to say that your capital improvement plan is your performance review, you got them all done. But what you don’t realize is that about 80% of my daily activity this year is not working on the capital improvement plan. It’s answering phone calls, it’s answering the front desk, it’s answering emails, it’s (unintelligible). I’m just inundated with so much during the day that a lot of times I don’t have time to get to this. So, you say at the end of the year, why the hell didn’t you get more road paved? Well, it was on my goals. It’s still on my goals. The money didn’t go anywhere. But no, did I get it done? No. Because other things come up throughout the year. (Unintelligible), to your point, you’re right. That would run interference in the accomplishment of some of these other capital improvement goals that we have. So, yeah, it’s complicated. It’s very different. It’s not like my Chrysler performance review.

Agenda Item #10, New Business (Video time mark 1:12:42):

Wylie said okay, now we’re moving on to Item #10, new business.

Item 10a – Discussion: Historic District Commission Activity Report for 2024 Year-to-Date (Video time mark 1:12:43):

• • Historic District Commission – Activity Report for 2024 Q1 and Q2 (page 30/34 of the council packet)

Wylie said “a” is discussion of the Historic District Commission activity report for 2024 year to date. And Dr. Moon is here. And we also have items in our packet.

Moon said representing the Historic District Commission, the first five that you have there we dealt with in the first quarter.

So, for second quarter, which was fairly busy, we would start with, at April 15^th, before Buffalo Street. And I might just mention that it was fairly busy because we had a number of issues dealing with leaky roofs. Quisenberry and Wylie said with what. Moon and Forte said leaky roofs. Wylie said oh, roofs. Okay, gotcha.

Moon said so, first up with, again, Buffalo, replacement of some sections of fence that were falling down, and they wanted to add another new section of fence. None of this was a difficulty because it was in the back of the house. It would not change the streetscape at all.

Moon said next is the city office’s property. I know Smith brought this to us. It was put in a privacy or a stocky-type fencing for the back of the property and also to help in preventing vandalism and such around the city offices for the storage of equipment and such behind the fence.

Moon said next, 71 North Main, repair of two chimneys. This is a simple matter of tuck-pointing of chimneys with loose mortar.

Moon said next, 43 South Holcomb. This is a case where we’d already approved an addition to the house on the corner of Holcomb and Church. And as often happens in construction, the need arose that we needed heating and cooling added into this small addition and came back to us realizing that if they were going to do something else out on the street, they would have to come to us. And we made several suggestions that would work with the Department of Interior standards. And I don’t believe, I was just by there the other day, and I don’t believe that they have done anything yet. They indicated that they would probably put the mechanical equipment on Church Street, but that it would be screened from the street by plantings. But again, last I saw them, they hadn’t done anything with that yet. They probably have to reach that point in the construction.

Moon said okay, the next is 177 North Main. This was one of the roof replacements. And again, this was one of those situations that come up in between meetings, and we deal with those fairly quickly so that they don’t have to wait until the meeting.

Moon said next, again, this was a similar situation. And again, 71 North Main, where they had water damage and needed to replace gutters and put in some new gutters because of the water damage they were having. But it happened to come up right when we had our June meeting, so we could deal with that quickly. Let’s see. Oh, just a typo there. It is replacing gutters.

Moon said next is 64 West Washington Street. This is a property of Charlotte Cooper. She wanted to replace the aluminum siding on the house and the garage and to put on a new roof. Let me see here. Oh, sorry. Wylie said there’s two. Moon said two applications, and I was going on to the next one. This was, again, a roof replacement for a leaky roof on both the house and the garage. And then, secondly, it came to us because, yes, she wanted to strip off the aluminum siding. And this, you might notice, is a conditional COA [Certificate of Appropriateness]. It was conditional on the status of the shakes that were under the aluminum siding. And she didn’t know, we didn’t know, what the condition of those shakes would be. But in order to allow her to start the project, we gave her a conditional COA, and it was conditional on what the condition of those shakes were to be evaluated by at least two of the commissioners and then reported back. Forte said have they looked. Moon said now, no one has reported back to me that they have looked at it yet. Informally, I have heard from her that she is satisfied with the condition of those shakes. And therefore, I believe I’ll have to talk to her, but informally, I’ve heard that she is pleased with the condition of those shakes but probably would not want to replace them. But I can talk to her personally.

Moon said let’s see. Next is 21 East Washington Street. Rob Hauxwell had a lot of storm damage to windows and doors, storm doors, particularly on the lakeside of his property. And so, these were all non-historic doors and windows that had already been replaced in the past. So, this is simply a replacement of replacement windows and with the addition of some storm doors to protect the doors and windows.

Moon said okay, next is 21 Clarkston Road, and I don’t know if you’re aware of it, that some of those historic stone, field stone pillars along Clarkston Road are in the historic district, particularly flanking the driveway for 21 Clarkston Road. This was, this one was hit by a driver, a reckless driver, late 2023, demolishing one of those stone pillars. Now, all of the stones are still there, but they’re just in, like, a pile of rubble. And so, the owner, Alma Harthum, has got in touch with her insurance carrier, and they agreed to pay to restore the stone pillar, and they just need to find a mason who can do it. But we approved it for them to go ahead and get a mason and to repair or replace that stone pillar using all the original stones that they could salvage.

Moon said another thing that’s important to the streetscapes in Clarkston that you don’t often see in some of the other small towns around, we have a number of these stone, not just stone walls, but stone pillars.

Quisenberry said there’s one more. Wylie said we’ve got one more. There’s 49 South Holcomb.

Moon said yes, oh, 49 South Holcomb. This was to install a stockade-style fence in the backyard. And again, this was two-length bell-sheet fence, one on the east elevation, one on the south elevation, to enclose the backyard. And again, this was not a difficulty because it’s totally in the backyard and therefore does not affect the streetscape.

Wylie said I have a question. You mentioned this yourself that a number of these, I forget, you’ve told us before, the MoAAs, what that stands for. Moon said that’s the Memorandum of Administrative Approval. Wylie said okay. But anyway, a number of them are for roof replacement. Why not just let people who have just changed, make the rules in the Historic District Commission that people can replace their roofs if there’s some particular material you don’t want to allow use, say you can’t do X material, but in general just let people, because it sounds, if you’ve got a leaking roof, I don’t want to wait. I want to call those people, and they should be up in the morning to do that work. Moon said and in general, we have cleared them faster than people can find somebody to do the roof. Yes, it’s possible, I suppose, that we could set something down that if you’re using such and such, that you could do that. But in general, we do approve it, so that it’s something that is in keeping with the historical nature perhaps. Now, anymore, I mean, it used to be that there were choices that we might not approve so often. But now, we’re dealing with pretty much the same thing. There are very few choices that would be outside of that, but still. Wylie said maybe just list those.

Wylie said and these memorandas, I assume they’re written explanations, or there’s a record of these? Moon said yes, they’re filed right here, along with the COAs.

Wylie said okay, and were there any denials in this time period? Moon said no. Wylie said okay, thank you.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions.

(To Quisenberry), Wylie said you have a question on your face.

Quisenberry said to replace a front door, would it be required to submit that to HDC [Historic District Commission] for approval. Moon said certainly. Quisenberry said okay.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions for Dr. Moon.

No questions.

Wylie said anybody else have questions for Dr. Moon.

No questions.

Wylie thanked Moon.

Item 10b – Resolution: Final Budget Amendments for the 23/24 Fiscal Year (Video time mark 1:25:02):

• • Resolution – 23/24 FY Budget Amendment (page 33/34 of the council packet)
  • 23/24 FY Budget Amendment Request – July 22, 2024 (page 34/34 of the council packet)

Wylie said and we are on 10b resolution, final budget amendments for the ‘23-‘24 fiscal year. We talked about this, I believe, last meeting, maybe even the meeting before that.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

(To Smith), Wylie said I don’t know if you want to go over any of this. It looks like everything was excess. Am I right? Smith said well, we’re moving money from a department that had excess funds into a department that was short. Wylie said okay. Smith said in total, we’re not going into the red. Wylie said okay. Oh, I see.

Lamphier said these are the ones that were short, though? Smith said yes. Wylie said the left one is the excess, and the one on the right is the short. Smith said (unintelligible) short. So, in the first one, we’re moving excess legal fees budget to the administration budget – Lamphier said okay – (continuing), Smith said because the administration budget was short.

Wylie said anybody on council have questions on any of these.

Quisenberry said on number three, moving excess legal fees to the fire budget. The fire budget was then short? Smith said correct. Quisenberry said how would that be short if we know what it is? Because we’re so in tune with the police and fire contractors with Independence [Township], we know what it is. I don’t understand. Smith said they had to procure additional equipment. I’m not sure, but it went up significantly. We hit the police budget right off, close to it. But the fire budget was significantly short, well to the tune of $2,700. Wylie said so, perhaps the bill, if you want to call it that, came, was higher than it had been the previous year? (Smith made an unintelligible comment.)

Rodgers said we’re under contract for a certain amount, right. Smith said we are. It’s a unionized contract, so you expect a certain percentage going up every year. Rodgers said gotcha. Smith said but this went up in excess of that.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions.

No questions.

Wylie said anybody else out there have questions on this resolution.

No questions.

(To Ashley), Wylie said would you take a roll call, please.

Quisenberry said we have to move. Wylie said I’m sorry. Thank you.

Motion by Forte; second Roth.

Wylie said so, we have had a discussion. So now, if you don’t mind taking the roll call. It was Forte who made the resolution, and Roth did the second.

Quisenberry said look at these names. There’s something wrong here. Fuller and Haven. Wylie said I’m sorry, we were just looking. There’s typos on here. Ashley said yes, I corrected that. Wylie said okay, okay.

Quisenberry, Roth, Casey, Rodgers, Lamphier, Forte, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you.

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn (Video time mark 1:28:31):

Wylie said and we have one last, am I right? Yes, one last Item #11. I need a motion to adjourn.

Motion by Roth; second Forte.

Wylie said you two are the only ones making motions tonight.

[Wylie did not ask for discussion.]

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said and we are adjourned at 8:29.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here
  • 07-22-2024 City Council packet