Introduction:
Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.
Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:00):
Sue Wylie said it’s 7:00, and she will call the meeting to order at 7:00.
Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:04):
Wylie asked if everybody would rise and say the Pledge of Allegiance.
Pledge said.
Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:21):
Wylie said the next item is their roll call. She asked Karen DeLorge (city clerk to take the roll call, please.
Gary Casey, Mark Lamphier, Sue Wylie, Amanda Forte, Laura Rodgers, and Bruce Fuller were present. Eric Haven was absent.
Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:44):
Wylie said Item #4 is approval of the agenda, and before they approve the agenda, Wylie wanted to make, she would like to suggest, a change on the agenda to move Item 10A, which is the motion of Eric Haven’s resignation, she’d like to move that up earlier on the agenda to the next item on the agenda so they can accept that right away so he’s no longer mayor in this, the rest of this meeting.
Wylie said she would like, well, maybe somebody else should make a motion. Wylie said all right, she will make a motion to approve it, the agenda, with the change of moving 10A up to, it would be Item #5. Wylie said she needs a second on that. Second Casey.
Wylie said she’s got Wylie and Casey.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to accept the agenda approved by unanimous voice vote.
Agenda Item #5 – Motion: Eric Haven’s Resignation (Video time mark 0:01:42):
[This was Agenda Item #10A on the published agenda but was moved to Agenda Item #5 at the beginning of the council meeting.]
-
- Motion – Acceptance of Eric Haven’s Resignation (page 26/33 of the council packet)
- 10-16-2023 Haven Resignation Email (page 27/33 of the council packet)
Wylie said so, their next item is going to be new Item #5, which is a motion, Eric Haven’s resignation.
Wylie said as everybody knows, Haven has sent in a resignation letter. OK. And this is a motion for acceptance of Eric Haven’s resignation.
(Wylie read the motion.)
Wylie said it’s addressed to Jonathan Smith [city manager], subject is resignation.
(Wylie read Haven’s resignation email.)
(Wylie continued to read from the motion.)
Wylie asked if anybody would like to make a motion on that. Motion Fuller; second Casey.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion.
Rodgers said she would just like to say that it does make her sad that he resigned. She wants to just go on record that she thinks that his heart has always been for the city, and he’s had the best interest of the city at hand. So, she just wanted to say that.
Casey said he agreed with Rodgers.
Wylie thanked Rodgers for saying that and said she agreed with Rodgers also.
Casey said it was very surprising to him. Casey thinks Haven has provided excellent leadership for everybody. Wylie and Rodgers agreed.
Wylie said it’s very sad, and she thinks almost everybody she’s spoken to has expressed sadness, unhappiness about it, surprise.
Wylie said she guesses they should just do a roll call vote and asked DeLorge to please take one.
Forte, Casey, Fuller, Wylie, Lamphier, and Rodgers voted yes.
Wylie said OK, sorry to say that that passes.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #6, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:04:38):
[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them, but this is a rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not). Occasionally, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act), another rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not).
If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]
Wylie said so, their next item on the agenda, she guesses everything’s moving down by one number, so that Haven’s resignation was item five, number six is public comments.
(Wylie read the rules for public comment.)
Wylie said she knows they have a letter but is there anybody who’s present there who would like to make a public comment.
Wylie recognized someone named Robert for a public comment. She said she saw him first. (Unintelligible discussion from members of the audience.) Wylie said it’s preferable if he comes to the podium, and if he’d like to, introduce himself.
Ken Ermer:
Ken Ermer said OK, stepped up to the podium, and identified himself. Ermer said as some of them are aware, he is on the Friends of Depot Park committee. He’s been on that committee since its inception. And they too have a set back. Haven has resigned from the Friends of Depot Park.
So, in their last meeting, they discussed the survey, and they have determined that they would like to redo the survey, come to them with the survey for their input and their approval and possibly send that out to the people. Then, also with the input and approval of the Optimist Club who donated all the money to the city, they’re hoping to come back with some suggestions of amenities for the park, and again, back to them as the council, back for their input and their approval of those things.
So, they would like to hopefully go forward with some of the items that are on that five-year plan. But again, it’s going to depend upon what the people would like, what they as the council would like, and what everybody agrees to on how to spend that money that they got from the Clarkston Optimist Club.
Ermer thanked them for letting him talk to them. That was all he wanted to do. Inform them as to what the Friends of Depot Park are doing.
Rodgers thanked Ermer and said she thought that survey is key to getting what the community wants. They’re just a small piece of that. The more important part is what the other 800 or 775 people, however many other people there are in the in the village, city of the village, what they want.
Ermer said well, again, they want to run the survey past council – Rodgers said she thinks that’s great – (continuing), Ermer said with any input and approval before it – Rodgers said a heads up – (continuing), Ermer said before it goes out. Rodgers agreed. Ermer said and of course, they get the opportunity to say they don’t want it to go out, or they want it to go out, or they want changes to it. Rodgers agreed. Ermer said right now, the tentative plan is to have a picture, have a description, have a cost, and have a maintenance item in there plus other things. So, Tom [Lowrie?] and Ermer are in the community along with Jim Brueck and Jonathan Smith [city manager], Paul Zupon, and others. Rodgers said that’s perfect.
Ermer asked if there were any other questions.
Wylie recognized Peg Roth for a comment.
Roth asked Ermer how they were going to do this survey. By mail? Ermer said he thinks they’re going to have to determine that. Again, you know, how they’re going to do it is up for discussion. They just thought, they first came up with a tentative way of how to put the survey together, and they’re still working on that, (gesturing toward the council) then present it to them, and then they’ll have to talk about how they’re going to do it. Roth said she was just curious.
An unidentified man in the audience said they are supposed to have a meeting with Kristen [no last name provided] from Oakland County that has gone through this type of thing before, and there’s a certain sequence, and hopefully meet with her within the next week.
Rodgers asked Roth if she had any thoughts on how she would like to get that out. Roth said she thought it’s going to be, things are so difficult to do a lot of this kind of stuff. That’s why she was wondering, if Ermer does it by mail, then how many people. Ermer said then there’s a cost. Roth said there’s a cost. Ermer said there’s a cost to that. Roth said and then you set up a time for them to respond to you. Because things are so different now. Rodgers agreed. Roth said at one time that was very commonplace. Ermer agreed. Roth said you could do something like that, but now it’s become very complicated. Ermer said yeah, and then if you have emails, you’re not sure if you’re getting the e-mail back from the person you sent it to, but they’ll have to. Roth agreed and said (unintelligible) problems. Ermer said right, yeah, they’re going to determine all that and go through the yeas and nays. Roth said thank you.
Ermer asked if there was anything else.
Wylie asked if anybody else had questions for Ermer.
Wylie recognized an unidentified man in the audience.
The unidentified man said it may be premature, but he read in the last publication that went out about the survey, and it listed 6, 7, 8, different options. The one thing that wasn’t on there, and he thinks it’s probably the most important thing, certainly the most well-used item in the park, and that’s the playground area, and he thinks that they need to put in their survey one of the options of spending the money on enhancing and improving the playground area. He was walking through the park during the summer one evening, and there were probably seventy-five people in the park. Fifty of them were in the playground area. That’s the most used section, and that was the item that was left out of any of those options that they could use that money for. So, he’s just suggesting that they put that out there as an option.
Ermer said well, to do, of course he realizes, they redid that whole playground and got rid of all the wood equipment. It would be a requirement of space, OK, now they’re, you know, they’d have, where are they going to get the space to do that, and now they’re going to have to go back to people involved on the council, it’s their park, they have to, that would have to be a decision of where, what space are they going to get, how would they put them in because yes, they’re very interested in putting in some type of equipment for children, for impaired children, definitely. The unidentified man said ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act] compliant. Ermer said and ADA compliant.
Fuller said well, their drawing did have an expanded playground on the Google map type of drawing. It did have expanded playground on that. He doesn’t know, he doesn’t remember on a survey, but that was on that image that they got. An unidentified man in the audience said he didn’t believe the playground was expanding. Ermer said no, it wasn’t expanded. Fuller said he was looking at it the other day, and it said expanded playground. Maybe that’s already been done. Ermer said it has been done because then they put the walkway around it now here, right. Fuller said so, that must have been something already done. It was labeled as expanded playground. Ermer said because they’re bumping up against the sidewalk and they’re bumping up against the other sidewalk going toward the Mill Pond and the other sidewalk. Ermer said he doesn’t have an answer to that.
Fuller said yeah, well, he guesses he misinterpreted because it did say that, but he was also wondering if they make it ADA compliant, are they talking about taking all those wood chips out and putting in like a rubberized surface so that a wheelchair can move across it and all that? Ermer said it all depends on the finances again. Fuller agreed. Ermer said you know, way back when they redid the playground, he did look at rubber, but you’re talking $50-$60,000 just for that. (Fuller made an unintelligible comment.) Ermer said and of course, if you’ve been out to the park on Baldwin and – Wylie said Clarkston Road – Ermer said Clarkston Road, they put in that baseball field. That’s rubber padding, and at the time he looked at that five years ago, that was $20 a square foot. Fuller agreed. Ermer said so, it’s again, it’s the finances, where you get the money. But he agrees with Fuller, the mulch is packed down now. And here we are. Fuller said OK.
Roth said isn’t all of that, it’s all state regulated. How many inches it has to be. Ermer agreed. Roth said she remembers working with Baker. Ermer agreed and said it’s just like when you talk about the gazebo, you realize that’s grandfathered in. That gazebo is not ADA compliant, but it’s grandfathered in right now, so that’s another situation. If you ever get to a point where you need to replace that gazebo, and now you have to make it ADA compliant. Fuller agreed.
Wylie said great. Ermer said OK.
Wylie thanked Ermer and Tom (Lowrie?).
Wylie asked if anyone else who’s present, she’s sorry. She recognized Robert and asked if he wanted to come up, and again if he’d introduce himself.
Robert S:
The man introduced himself as “Robert S” and provided his street address. He said he’s spoken with Smith quite a few times in regard to safety on Miller Road. As of recently, two weeks ago, somebody, it’s a constant problem, speeding on Miller Road, and blew past the stop sign. That’s the second stop sign that they replaced in the past year. People clearly don’t go 25. They go 35, 40. He understands that there is something on the budget today for painting of parking stripes or something of that nature. He was wondering if potentially they could put, maybe put “stop,” painted on Miller and Glenburnie to kind of get people’s attention to actually, maybe slow down a little bit or actually stop at the stop sign.
Rober S’s second comment is, and he’s sent Smtih pictures with people parking on the sidewalk, and that’s where his property is. It’s kind of a two-fold problem where people, for the X amount of years, have always thought, that where his property lies, that it’s public property, and people have been fishing, again, he loves fishing. He’s a fisherman. It’s just, he doesn’t want the liability of somebody getting hurt on the property and then they come back after him and it’s been an ongoing issue. He’s had wonderful discussions with Smith trying to figure something out. He was hoping if maybe the city could put something out on a weekly e-mail or just something, a sign that says, you know, this is private property. You know, he works hard. He wants privacy. And most importantly, he doesn’t want the liability of somebody coming out and getting hurt. It’s been on Facebook a couple of times. He’s got thick skin. He doesn’t care about that. It becomes a bigger problem when an ex-city employee is telling people it’s public property as well too.
So, he’s just asking if there’s anything they can do to kind of mitigate people walking in people’s backyards, you know, politely and kindly, and most importantly, maybe Miller Road, finding the solution, potentially even lowering the speed limit from 25 to 15 so they’ll go 25. He doesn’t know. Or just even painting “stop” or painting speed bars or whatever the terminology is.
Robert said that’s it. If they have any questions, they know where to find him.
Wylie said she’s kind of surprised that people are parking on the sidewalk and there’s really – Robert S. said they park on the sidewalk. If they block the sidewalk, people have to walk in the street. He’s sent Smith some photos.
Wylie asked if they are parking to fish? Robert S. said fish, picnic, you know, you name it. Wylie said oh, OK.
Robert S. said it just seems very odd. He means, he understands, it’s vacant. People for a long time have thought that it’s been, you know, public. Wylie agreed. Robert S. said the previous owners, he thinks they weren’t really in the picture. He thinks it was in an estate will or something of that nature. So, his biggest concern is just obviously safety, not only for himself, but for people too, especially with people parking on the sidewalk and people trying to get through.
Rodgers asked Smith if he thought, when he talked about raising that sidewalk up when he redoes those sidewalks, like, right now, it’s even with the roads, so like, people probably don’t even think about that maybe. If once the sidewalk is elevated, is that something that they’re doing in this, the sidewalk thing that Smith is talking about, or is that like years from now? Smith said last week, they talked, the last meeting, they talked about reducing the cost of that because they’re way over budget. Rodgers agreed. (Continuing), Smith said and that was one of the things that could be considered was a reduction, as a way of bringing those numbers back into our budget. So, he’s not sure about that at this five minutes, but, (to Robert S.) at the very least, they’re putting out stop signs or no parking signs. Excuse him. No parking signs will go up. Jimi [Turner, DPW supervisor] is going to set the post tomorrow. He was going to do that today, just ran out of time, but they’re sensitive to that. No parking on that street is an obvious thing. The stop sign, yes. Fortunately, or unfortunately, there’s a narrow strip of grass there in which to put the stop sign. If you put it on the other side – Robert S. said they won’t see it. Smith said he didn’t think people would see it and blow through it even more, so the thought was to reinstall that where the old one got broken off. Smith doesn’t think they have any choice there, so that will be done. As far as painting “stop” on the pavement, that is something they can do. Smith will talk to Turner to see if they have a template, a stop spelled out template, in which case it’s something he can do. Smith does have a contractor coming into town to do some painting that was not on the list, but Smith is sure it’s something they can get done for him.
Robert S. said if there’s something to it, because he knows the property is kind of, if they have to have a discussion about the sidewalk and safety, he’s always open to a discussion about that.
Rodgers said what about, like that officer. She doesn’t see him there tonight. Smith said Sergeant Ashley. Rodgers said doing that, with the sign that tells you how fast you’re going, you know, just to, it flashes, you know. She means, she knows that, she thinks that, she shouldn’t say she knows, she thinks that that helps coming into Main Street when you’re coming off of 75, like you see that, and it’s like ohh shoot, like slow down, right. She doesn’t know how they get their speed up on Miller Road, but maybe it would – (interrupting Rodgers), Robert S. said once nighttime comes, it – (interrupting Robert S.), Rodgers said she’s heard that, his neighbors have told her that too. Maybe that would help a little bit. She doesn’t think it costs them anything to do that. Smith said it’s temporary, but it’s – (interrupting Smith), Rodgers said yeah, but at least it – (interrupting Rodgers), Robert S. said he means, the cops do a good job. When they’re there, they pull people over. Rodgers said yeah, but there’re not there. Robert S. said when they don’t see the cop, you know, they know it’s clear. Rodgers agreed.
Wylie recognized Tom Ryan [city attorney].
Ryan asked Robert S. if he’d thought about posting his vacant property, private property. Robert S. said he’s done that for the past two-and-a-half years, OK, blasted it on Facebook. Ryan said OK, but it’s his property. Robert S. said no, he understands that, but then people put in like his business and they started doxing him. He understands that. But people, you’ve got ex-city employees telling people it’s public property. Ryan said he didn’t know anything about that. Wylie said she’s seen it. Robert S. said well, OK, maybe misinformation or whatever it might be. He knows DeLorge and Smith have done a good job when people call and complain and say no, come fish at the park, which I understand, he means, he just, it’s just all the liability and a privacy issue. Ryan said OK.
Wylie asked if anyone else on council had a comment or question for Robert S. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)
Wylie asked if anyone else had a comment or question. Smith looked like he was going to say something.
Smith said the challenge on the lot lines is that, he knows that it moves, it fluctuates with the water levels. Robert S. said right. Smith said he is consulting with HRC [Hubbell, Roth & Clark, the city’s contract engineers] on that, who advised Smith it is not a stagnant point. It moves up and down. Robert S. said right, it yeah, so technically, his goes further out, the lower the pond goes. Smith said the lower the pond goes, yeah. Well, the higher the pond, the higher the water is, now his lot is going to go further. Robert S. said eaten up, yes. Smith said when the water recedes, which it’s been going back and forth a little bit, when that recedes, then his lot line, his land, gets bigger. Robert S. agreed. Smith said it’s complicated. Robert S. agreed. Smith said it’s a very weird situation. The former employee that spoke about that on Facebook, Smith knows, you know, he was referring to kind of the traditional understanding. Robert S. said right. Just misconstrued, but still, yeah. Smith said but with the water level changing, he consulted with HRC on this site. It’s not a simple solution. Robert S. agreed. Smith said to say the lot line is here and therefore that, after that, it’s city. Robert S. said right. Smith said but the signage, and possibly paint, and possibly his speed sign. They will take that. Robert S. said even just a friendly reminder in the weekly emails, like guys be cognizant of people’s property, you know, would go hugely too. Wylie agreed. Robert S. said yeah, that’s about it.
Robert S. thanked the council. Wylie thanked Robert S.
Wylie asked if anyone else present would like to make a public comment.
No additional comments.
Wylie said OK, they have an e-mailed public comment and she thought she saw he is online. Wylie asked Chet Pardee if he wanted to make a comment, read his comment?
(Pardee spoke in a muffled voice.)
Wylie said hang on. She couldn’t hear him yet.
(Forte tried to adjust the speaker.)
Forte said if you do the plus sign on that one, you should be able to hear him. (Pardee asked if they could hear him now in a muted voice.) Wylie said nope, not yet. Forte said she’s going to have to keep pressing it, sorry. Wylie asked Pardee to say something again.
(Pardee made a muffled comment.)
(Wylie and Smith tried to adjust the speaker.)
Smith asked Pardee to try again.
(Pardee asked if they could hear him, but the comment was muffled.)
Fuller said it’s not changing.
Wylie told Pardee they couldn’t really hear him and asked if he would like her to read his letter.
(Pardee said yes in a muffled voice.)
Wylie said she’s sorry about that.
Wylie said so, everybody on council got this email today, public comments, Clarkston council meeting, 10/23/23.
Chet Pardee:
Good evening. Thank you, Mayor Haven, for reading his public comments in the last council meeting. The discussions in the past two council meetings suggest that some council members are willing to vote and speak out, to express their feelings in a manner not previously seen. Pardee applauds those who have been willing to speak out.
The sidewalk repair discussion in the last meeting was telling and very chilling. After reducing the number of sidewalks sections for repair by using the ¾” threshold, 300 sections, rather than the ¼” ADA threshold, thousands of sections, the budgeted dollars, are still not sufficient to meet contractors’ quotations. The solution appears to be further reducing the number of sections by third or more.
The fund balance is only $10,000 above minimum in the current budget. Like a kid wanting to buy a candy bar but only having money for penny candy.
The September 2022 PASER [Pavement Surface Evaluation and Rating] study update, their suitable-for-framing copy previously provided, and the current budget confirmed, the city has insufficient funds to repair its streets and sidewalks. Depot Road will be repaired with federal ARPA [American Recovery Program Act] COVID funds and West Washington will be repaired with triparty funds. The city has insufficient funds to repair its worst street situations. No plan to repair West Miller, and no plan to repair the seven Main Street paver aprons.
The city attorney recently confirmed that Michigan’s trip and fall legal liability barrier has been lowered. Pardee has suggested several times in the past that council members meet as a group with a Julie Meredith [Clarkston Independence District Library director] facilitation to better understand how the city’s finances work and to discuss council priorities for the City of the Village of Clarkston.
In March, the Finance Committee will be exposed to reality. The city will drive off the cliff, budget-wise. Paid parking revenue is below projections, and inflation on necessary expenses is occurring. Pardee will support using paid parking revenue for employee pay increases. It is clear to Pardee that Smith and Greg [Coté, city treasurer] understand the city’s finances as they have been presenting budgets which fit available funds. For the next year’s 2024-25 budget, limited, if any, employee salary increases, no street or sidewalk capital project proposals, and no new truck for Turner as shown in the Capital Improvement Plan. The city’s personnel implications are not pleasant to consider.
Coté can explain how the city’s property tax millage has been reduced by 4.91 mills due to the two GO [General Obligation] bonds being paid off. Property owners are now only paying the 11.142 mills operating instead of the previous 16.2 mill total, which included city debt.
Please use Julie Meredith to facilitate council members’ increased financial understanding in an environment that can answer their questions in an educational setting.
Wylie said that’s from Chet Pardee.
Wylie asked if anybody else had public comments or wanted to comment on Pardee’s comments.
No comments.
Wylie asked if anyone else had any other public comments?
No comments.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #7, FYI (Video time mark 0:25:19):
Item 7a – Halloween Hours
Wylie said OK. They will move on to what is now Item #7, which is FYI. And it’s just in the City of the village of Clarkston, Halloween trick or treating hours are 6:00 PM to 7:00 PM on October 31st, 2023.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #8, City Manager Report (Video time mark 25:41):
-
- October 23, 2023 City Manager Report (page 3/33 of the council packet)
Wylie said new Item #8 is the city manager’s report for October 23rd. Wylie asked Smith if he wanted to add anything or say anything besides what he’s written here.
Smith said well, he guesses he’d just like to expand a little bit on the comments. The first one was rather alarming. So, they received an anon – he should say, EGLE, Michigan’s EGLE, Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy received, an anonymous complaint about the city storing materials in the back of Depot Park, affectionately known as the staging area. They have tree limbs, mostly tree limbs back there, but there are some other materials such as pavers, rock. There are some playground equipment pieces, some old playground equipment pieces.
Smtih said this representative from EGLE that came into the office and spoke with Smith. He said the main thing that they need to consider is that there’s wetlands on the left, wetlands on the right, and this obstacle in the middle, if you will. All of their mulch and their tree limbs and whatnot are blocking water from getting from the left to the right because they have this in the middle, and he says they need to clean that up. So, this is not a, just a suggestion, this is a requirement. The representative was very supportive and wants to work with Smith on this because Smith said this is going to take some time and money to get this all changed. This has been in use for thirty years or more as a staging area. Smith doesn’t like to use the word dump because they’re not dumping, they’re staging there, staging materials there with the idea that they would come out later. But admittedly, they don’t have the funds always, and so that falls to the back burner.
Smith said so, there are a significant amount of tree branches back there and stumps and big trunks, tree trunks, that would have to all be chipped and hauled away. They can’t just drop the chips where they fall. They really have to be hauled out. So, this is going to be an expensive endeavor. Smith doesn’t think it’s something that he can have his DPW [Department of Public Works] team do. It would just be all-consuming for weeks if not months. Then nothing else would get done. So, Smith has to consider that. So, more to come on this. Smith will have to come back to the council with a proposal for how they clean up that space back there in a reasonable amount of time. What is reasonable? Smith thinks six months to a year max is reasonable. It can’t be something that can be done here in the next thirty days, and it’s not going to be done. It can’t go beyond a year. He doesn’t think EGLE is going to be that patient. So, this is a big endeavor, probably something that’s long overdue, but like he said, it’s been going on for a long, long time. So more to come on that.
Smith said the office was broken into a few weeks ago by some young boys that just, in Smith’s mind, just had too much time on their hands. He watched them on the video, watched the whole thing on video. They have a video camera right over the door that they broke into. So, Smith is working with the Oakland County Sheriff on that. They have made some changes to the door lock. Smith thinks they need to get better door locks. They’re not very secure, these door locks. And Smith is told that these are homeowner grade. They are a push bar like a commercial door would have, but they’re the cheapest that you could possibly get. So, that’s another expense that they need to consider.
Smith said they’ve done a lot of security-related improvements there in the city office in the last year. They’re using the security systems that they’ve already purchased and installed. The alarm system is what scared those two boys away, otherwise they would have come in here and probably spent the weekend in here. What scared them away is when the alarm went off, so thank God for that, because it could have been much worse. So, here again, more to come on this. This is another kind of frustrating development that they need to address. It’s just dropped in their lap, so it’s got to be addressed quickly. Smith doesn’t know what’s the cost of it just yet.
Wylie asked if she could interrupt Smith on that. Smith said there were some, they’ve vandalized the election – Smith said the election box – (continuing), Wylie said box, so is that going to have to be replaced. Smith said no, they didn’t get that far. Wylie said oh, OK. Smith said they tried, they bent a tab that’s used to open the doors, but they were able to repair that. But they came back, Smith thinks, a couple days later and they’re kicking the office door. Smith is working with the Oakland County Sheriff, John [Sergeant Ashley] to get this report on and get their picture put out there. They’re young boys. They’re probably 12,14, that age. Wylie said OK. Casey said they haven’t been identified. Smith said not yet, no. But one of them is wearing a sweatshirt with his name on the back so Smith doesn’t think it will take long. (Laughter.)
Smith said road paving. He appreciates everybody’s patience. There’s been a lot of road paving Saturday, Sunday, and today, a lot of flagmen running around, but the bulk of it is now done. They’re just doing some final cleanup. They went much faster. They had nine days reserved for this and they did it in three. So, it’s rather impressive. And they did really an amazing job. So, very happy with the road work. If you’ve been on any of these roads, there’s just such a huge improvement. Roth said Holcomb and Washington look great. Casey said yeah, he was impressed at how fast it went. Smith said yeah, they really did. So, it’s a short-term pain. He appreciates everybody just being very patient and understanding about it.
Smith said the light pole in Depot Park was replaced. It’s been many years trying to get that done, so he was glad to see that done.
Smith said he guesses that’s all he has.
Rodgers thanked Smith.
Wylie asked if DeLorge wanted to talk, who wants to talk about election?
DeLorge said she has an upcoming election day that Smith kindly put on this report. So, she will be open Tuesday, November 7th for any inquiries. If anyone wants to stop in and has any questions or needs to register, they can do that on that Saturday, from 7 – well she’s reading the wrong thing. She had her, the accuracy test today too, so that went well. Wylie said good. DeLorge said so, she’s getting a little ahead of herself, but she will be open on November 4th from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. That’s a Saturday, before the election, to help, just anyone needing anything, or towards the, you know, about the election, has any questions, they can stop in. Wylie said OK.
Wylie asked if anybody on council had questions or comments for Smith or DeLorge about the election.
No comments.
Wylie asked if anybody else had any questions or comments.
No comments.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #9 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:33:35):
-
- 09-25-2023 Final Minutes (page 5/33 of the council packet)
- 10-09-2023 Draft Minutes (page 7/33 of the council packet)
- 10-23-2023 Treasurer’s Report (page 10/33 of the council packet)
- 10-10-2023 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 09-30-2023 (page 11/33 of the council packet)
- Thomas J. Ryan, P.C., September Invoices (page 20/33 of the council packet)
Wylie said OK, they’ll move on to their new Item #9. This is a motion for acceptance of the consent agenda as presented, and they’ve got the final minutes from September 25th, the draft minutes from October 9th, and treasurer’s report from October 23rd. The documents are all in their packet. Wylie said she needs a motion and a second.
Motion by Rodgers; second Lamphier.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
The motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #10, Old Business (Video time mark 0:34:16):
Item 9a – Resolution and Second Reading: Ordinance 144 Update (To Adopt Oakland County’s Most Recent Storm Water Standards)
-
- Resolution – Adoption of Ordinance No. 144 (page 23/33 of the council packet)
- Marked-Up Copy, Ordinance No. 144 (page 24/33 of the council packet)
Wylie said OK, they’ll move on to their new Item #10, which is Old Business. Resolution and second reading, the Ordinance 144 update to adopt Oakland County’s most recent storm water standards. And this is their second reading. Ryan agreed. Wylie asked if they need to read it out loud.
Ryan said he can (unintelligible) if she’d like. Wylie said OK, thank you.
Ryan said so, their charter requires two readings, unless it’s an emergency ordinance, which this is not. So, as part of their compliance with their storm water management agreements with the county and state, they need to provide storm water management. And they’re, you know, a small community, they rely on Oakland County, Oakland County Water Resources Commission, who provide these rules and regulations. They’ve already adopted them. It’s about a, he thinks, one-hundred-page ordinance. That’s a lot of detailed regulations. And so, they don’t have to, every time they update them, they don’t have to, they’d just get a new packet of updated information, and this would automatically roll over, and they’d be here in the city and be effective when the Oakland County Water Resources Commission adopts these regulations. That’s the sole reason for this ordinance, just to stop them from every three or four years having to adopt a new ordinance. This is sort of like the traffic code. Every time it changes, they get a new booklet, and the law or ordinance is updated.
Ryan said so, this is Ordinance 144, an ordinance to adopt by reference the Oakland County Water Resources Commissioner’s engineering design standards for stormwater facilities. It has section 1.01, which is really the main part, and the only change in the ordinance, “[t]he City of Village of Clarkston shall adopt by reference the Oakland County Water Resources Commissioner Engineering Design Standards for Storm Water Facilities providing requirements, rules, and design criteria for storm water management as adopted by the Water Resources Commissioner as amended from time to time.” That’s the only substantive change in the current ordinance that exists.
Section 2.01 is a repealer clause which repeals the old ordinance.
Section 3.01 is a severability clause.
Section 4.01 is a violations section, which speaks to the fact that it’s a civil infraction, or if there’s equitable relief needed, or injunctive relief, that may be sought if there’s a public emergency as such.
And 5.01 is an effective date which should be published. After it’s published pursuant to city charter, it’s effective twenty days after publication should the city council approve this ordinance tonight.
Wylie said OK. Ryan said he would recommend approval since it’s just an update of what they have already in the books and to keep them compliant with the state and the county.
Wylie said OK, so the resolution reads, should she read the resolution now? Ryan said sure.
(Wylie read the resolution.)
Wylie said she needed somebody to make a motion for this resolution and second.
Motion by Forte; second Rodgers.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion on council.
No discussion.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion by audience.
No discussion.
Wylie said they need to, since it’s a resolution, they need to do a roll call.
Wylie, Rodgers, Lamphier, Fuller, Forte, and Casey voted yes.
Wylie said thank you. The resolution is adopted.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 0:39:08):
Wylie said they are on, so for New Business, which is the now Item #11, they’ve already taken care of the motion for Eric Haven’s resignation.
Item 11a – Resolution: Parking Space Markings (Video time mark 0:39:24):
-
- Resolution – Repainting of Parking Space, Crosswalk and Stop Bar Markings (Page 28/33 of the council packet)
- Chart, Parking Space and Other Striping Needed (page 29/33 of the council packet)
- Bid Comparison, Repainting of Parking Spaces, Crosswalks & Stop Bars (page 30/33 of the council packet)
- Quotation, Hart Pavement Striping (page 31/33 of the council packet)
- Quotation, State Striping, LLC (page 32/33 of the council packet)
- Quotation, LazerLines Parking Lot Maintenance, LLC (page 33/33 of the council packet)
Wylie said they have a new 11A. Resolution for parking space marking, and she asked if they had some things in their packet regarding that. And it’s a resolution. Wylie asked if Smith wanted to talk about it.
Smith said so, from time to time, they have to restripe. Generally, you get about two years out of your striping, whether it’s a parking lot or stop bar or crosswalks, crosswalks are less than two years, but they try to, you know, spread them out so that about every two years they’re working on various markings in the city.
Smith said so, he’s identified a list that needs to be done right now. Most of these are existing parking spots, but there are a few on Buffalo Street where there are not parking spots. This is between Church and Waldon. There are no parking spots identified there. They’ve had a lot of issues with people trying to jam too many cars in between the driveway cuts. In fact, sometimes they just park right in front of the driveway cuts so, they need to get those painted.
Smith said so, most of these, and there is a table that identifies where they are. So, they’re not doing the parking lot spaces. Those were done last year and are in pretty good shape. So, they don’t need to do any parking lots. The only ones that are bad are the ones in the city parking lot. Those are pretty much gone. It’s been two years since they were marked, so they need to be remarked. Depot Road, as they just did the paving out there, the contractor will repaint the, and this is true of all the roads that the contractor just repaved, he’ll replace the crossbars, or crosswalks, and the stop bars and even the arrows at the end of Depot Road that you have to kind of split, go right or left, those arrows he will do, but for some reason, he does not do parking space lines. Seems like the simplest thing but he does not do this. So, that’s where they have to bring their own contractor to do that. So, they have twenty-six angle spots on Depot Road that need to be restriped. West Washington, they have some, just regular parking spots, to be restriped. East Washington, same way. Buffalo, and as he talked on Buffalo, because of between Church and Waldon, and because of illegal parking going on there, and then East Church Street.
Smith said so, this list of, along with the colors and the widths and all that, was put out to bid, and they got three responses back, and those are included in their packet. They’ve got quotes from Hart Striping, State Striping, and LazerLines, and they’re summarized here in this table. Hart paving was the highest with $4,000, State was $1,600, and LazerLines was $2,100. They’ve previously used LazerLines. It’s been a few years, but they previously used them with good success, but their price came in higher than State Striping (unintelligible). So, it’s Smith’s recommendation that they use, they select the lowest bidder on this, and he didn’t see, looking at their quotes, he didn’t see any reason to step up to the $2,199, another $1,600 to go with LazerLines. Even though they previously used them, Smith couldn’t justify that difference.
Smith said so, the quotes are there in the packet. Smith would like to get this work done yet this fall, before winter. So, they’ve assured him that they can get that done. They just need a dry day and at least forty-five, preferably, fifty degrees, and they can get that work done.
Wylie said OK and thanked Smith. (Smith made an unintelligible comment.)
Wylie said so, let’s go through this resolution first.
(Wylie read the resolution.)
Wylie asked if anybody would like to make a motion for this resolution.
Motion by Forte; second Lamphier.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion from council.
Rodgers said she had just one question. With the three quotes, the one that says the least goes into the, also the least detail of what they’re actually doing. So, you know, is everything that’s specified on the other two quotes included in the $1,600 one, right? Smtih said it is. Rodgers said OK. Smith said he’s talked with this supplier. He’s talked to him on the phone, and so Smith is comfortable he’s including everything that’s in here. There is a question on some of the triangles, the hash marks that they put at the intersections, close to the intersections, to indicate no parking. He was a little fuzzy on how many of those there were, even though Smith spelled it out. So that was why, that was primarily why, Smith put in a 20% contingency, which is a little higher than he normally does. Rodgers agreed. Smith said he usually does 5-10% percent. A 20% contingency is a pretty hefty amount, but Smith just felt that because there was a little bit of vagueness in his, in their discussion about those hash marks, Smith thought he’d better add, make that 20%. So, with that, Smith is comfortable with his quote, and he talked with one of his references, so, and they were happy with his work.
Wylie asked if anybody else on council had a question or comment.
No comments.
Wylie asked if anybody in the audience had comments.
Roth asked Smith when he has the list of the parking spaces, maybe she misread, there were fifteen spaces on Buffalo between Church and Waldon. Or did she misunderstand, probably. Smith said he believes all fifteen of those are between Church and Waldon, yes. Roth said she just can’t even imagine where fifteen spaces are. Fuller said both sides of the street. Smith said no, it’s just on the one side, it’s on the east side of the street. But because there are no marked spaces beyond that, between Church and Washington, there are no, you know, there are people that park in their easements, but there’s nothing on (unintelligible crosstalk, including a discussion between Rodgers and Forte). Smith said that is just on one side.
Fuller said so, if a person, and the easement between the sidewalk and the street, if they take the grass out and put gravel in there, that negates the parking spot on the street. Smith said well, you know, effectively it does, but they, assuming there’s not a hard curb there or, it’s nothing there and they could just park right on that space. They have allowed that. So occasionally, Smith said he has somebody that says, you know, they have teenage drivers whatever in their household, they don’t have enough space in the driveway for all the cars, and so they will, that’s typically the type of call he gets, can we put gravel out between the road and the sidewalk. That is city property, but because it adds parking to the city, they haven’t objected to that. They’ve allowed it. Fuller said he was just curious. He sees it around. Smith said you will see it mixed. You’ll see two that are grass and then one that’s gravel. So, it’s a mix. And that’s why, because they don’t force it on, historically, they have not forced that on any of their residents but just make it optional.
Wylie asked if there was anybody else with a comment.
No comments.
Wylie said OK, then they need to do a roll call.
Fuller, Forte, Casey, Lamphier, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.
Wylie said and the resolution is adopted.
[Renumbered] Agenda Item #12, Adjourn (Video time mark 0:49:48):
Wylie said that brings them to Item #12, which is adjournment of the meeting.
Wylie recognized Smith for a comment.
Smith said he thinks they want to talk about – Wylie said you want to talk about, yeah – about kind of the next steps for Haven’s replacement. So, the assumption is that Wylie as mayor pro tem becomes mayor. Wylie said well, there, that’s – Ryan said no, no, no. It’s not the, he means, the mayor, the mayor spot is a specific elective position, along with six members of council. So, the charter does not exactly say what happens. He means, he did a memo which is, can be seen by, you know, the city, is what his interpretation is. Some charters say that upon the mayor’s resignation, the mayor pro tem becomes mayor until the next election, whatever. Their charter doesn’t say that. It talks about the mayor pro tem acting in the temporary capacity for the mayor. Well, this is not a temporary capacity now. It’s an actual vacancy.
Ryan said so, he didn’t feel that that’s, you know, he means they could bump along for another year ‘til the next election. Mrs. Wylie could be mayor pro tem for another year, but they would be down one council person, i.e., the mayor’s position, so Ryan doesn’t think that’s optimal, but it’s up for council to decide how to do this, which won’t happen tonight because the vacancy just occurred.
Ryan said so, right now, they have a vacancy in the office of mayor. His suggestion was that if she would accept this and if this is what the council wanted, somebody should be appointed mayor, i.e., Mrs. Wylie or somebody else would be appointed mayor to fill that vacancy. If the city doesn’t want to do that, if they want to have a special election, they could have a special election for a person to fill that spot for mayor for the next year, if they wanted to go through that, you know, time and expense of that. Or they could, if the council wished, and Mrs. Wylie wished to do this, and the council wanted it, she would be appointed mayor. Not at this meeting, but at the next meeting, and then that would create a vacancy in her position on council because she sits as a council person, not as the mayor. So that would slide over another vacancy from council member for her position, because now she would be in position of mayor for a year, and so, then the council would have the opportunity, within thirty to sixty, he thinks it’s fifteen – Wylie said fourteen – Ryan said fourteen to thirty days to appoint a sixth member of council for her position.
Ryan said so, they would get like a twofer. They would move one person over and then they would have another vacancy on council, which council could appoint one person until the next city election for that vacancy on council, which would be Mrs. Wylie’s seat, even though she’s titled mayor pro tem, she comes to that position because she’s a member of council. That’s because she wasn’t elected mayor like Mr. Haven was. That’s a special spot under the charter.
Wylie thanked Ryan for the explanation.
Ryan said so, just some food for thought. At the next meeting, they have a vacancy in the office of mayor. So, it could be filled by appointment, or it could be filled by election, or it could be left vacant until the next city election.
Wylie said an appointment would be, the council would, and she has let people know she is interested in being mayor, so the council would have to have a vote on that. Ryan said yes. Wylie said OK, thank you.
Ryan said and if that happens, then she would resign her position as council member. Wylie agreed. Ryan said and then there would be a vacancy for that position and that would be publicized to the city and somebody else would hopefully fill that seat after making an application to the city council.
Wylie thanked Ryan and asked if anybody else on council had questions or comments on this procedure. (Unintelligible comments from council members. No audible comments.)
Wylie asked if anybody else had questions or questions or comments.
Roth asked if there was one year left. Wylie and Ryan said yes, it will be up for election next year. Ryan said until November. Wylie said the way the charter reads, the next general election, which is November 2024. Roth said that’s rather expensive to have a special election. Wylie agreed. Ryan said it’s an option that he didn’t recommend, but that’s up to them. That’s an option.
Smith said and it’s too late, he didn’t raise this question, it’s too late to put in, you know, another entry on this coming election in couple weeks. Roth looked at DeLorge and said it would make her crazy. Smith said the ballots (laughter and unintelligible comments), that’s set in stone.
Wylie said OK. Then they are at item number, she can’t read her writing, 12. She needs a notion to adjourn.
Motion by Fuller; second Forte.
Wylie asked if there was any discussion.
No discussion.
Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.
Wylie said the meeting was adjourned at 7:55.
Resources:
-
- Link to video recording here
- 10-23-2023 city council packet