Category: Canada Geese

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:01):

Sue Wylie said it is seven o’clock. I’m going to call the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:06):

Wylie said if everybody would please rise, we’ll say the Pledge of Allegiance.

(Pledge said.)

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:28):

Wylie said Item #3 on our agenda is the roll call. (To Smith), Wylie said if you would take the roll call, please. Smith said okay.

Sue Wylie, Laura Rodgers, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Erica Jones, and Ted Quisenberry were present.

Al Avery was absent.

Wylie said great, thank you.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (Video time mark 0:00:49):

Wylie said item #4 is approval of the agenda. And I need a motion to approve of the agenda as presented.

Motion by Jones; second Rodgers.

Wylie said any discussion from council.

No discussion.

Wylie said any discussion from the public or comments.

No comments or discussion.

The motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:17):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).]

[If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said and Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make a public comment.

No comments.

Wylie said okay, we’ll move on to Item #6 because nobody is stepping up for a public comment.

Agenda Item #6 – FYI (Video time mark 0:01:46):

Wylie said Item #6 is FYI. There’s none here.

Wylie said I don’t know if you got the email. I just wanted to say we do have an opening on the Historic District Commission for a new commissioner because Annette, and I’m blanking out on her last name – Smith said Zemon-Parker – (continuing), Wylie said yes, has resigned. So, anybody who would like to, is interested, let Smith know, you can let me know. Anybody on council, let somebody know. Thank you.

Wylie said anybody else have anything?

Wylie recognized Jones for a comment.

Jones said is that is the newest member. Wylie said yes, it is. Jones said all right.

Quisenberry said I think Robert [no last name provided] may have just gotten here. Just to [unintelligible] if he has. Oh, did you have a public comment, Robert? Robert said no, it’s fine. Quisenberry said okay.

Wylie said okay. All right. Anybody else have anything for FYI?

No additional comments.

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (Video time mark 0:02:36):

• • City Manager Report April 14, 2025 (page 3/36 of the council packet)
  • August – November 2025 Election Dates (page 5/36 of the council packet)

Wylie said okay, let’s move to Item #7, city manager’s report. And we have the city manager’s report included. (To Smith), Wylie said would you want to go over anything?

Smith said I’ll go over each one real quickly here. So last week’s Main Street America Conference was really amazing. It was very well done. Large presentation in Philadelphia. I was very glad that I had the opportunity to join. As you know, Oakland County Main Street paid a large chunk of our, my travel expenses. So, it made it very inexpensive to attend and it was very, very worthwhile. Just some really good workshops, some good connections I made with other Main Streeters. And I was very happy I went. Following up on some of the connections I made, but very happy. Interestingly, Governor Shapiro of Pennsylvania, he spoke and did an amazing job in his speech. And his house was just firebombed. So, I’m glad that he made it out safe. He was an excellent speaker, is an excellent speaker.

Smith said last week I, before I went to the conference, I completed the application for community project funding through Lisa McLean’s office and the House of Representatives. I hope to also apply to Elissa Slotkin through the Congressional Directed Spending. And that’s through the U.S. Senate’s office. So that deadline has not come up yet. But working on that. So, take some of the effort that went into the Lisa McLean application and redeploy it to other applications. So, it was not a wasted effort. I don’t know if we have a shot at getting that, but I’m hopeful. And in the meantime, I’ll redeploy a lot of the documents and wording to other applications.

Smith said so, increased traffic. We know that there’s been a crazy increase of traffic downtown. This is largely due to MDOT’s [Michigan Department of Transportation’s] decision to close many of the, not quite all of them, but many of the entrance ramps and exit ramps between M-15 and basically Grand Blanc. A lot of those entrances and exits are closed. So, if you live anywhere in those areas, you have to get off at M-15 as you’re coming home. You have to get off at M-15 so that you can go over and go up Dixie Highway. Or if you’re coming into work in the morning, presumably from those northern areas and coming down, you’ll have to take Dixie Highway all the way down and then come up M-15 or come down White Lake Road or come in Holcomb. It’s all, everybody knows all the possible roads and going over to get your way over to I-75.

Smith said I had discussions today with MDOT, the city attorney, and Oakland County Sheriff John Ashley, who’s here today, and had good discussions on all three counts, but there is no silver bullet here. People are calling and complaining to the city office. What are you doing about this? And unfortunately, there’s no easy solution. Closing a road, say we were to close Miller Road or change it to a no-through traffic road, which I’m not even sure legally we can do that. It would be virtually impossible to enforce. But taking action, something like that, would only exasperate the traffic in other areas. So, there’s no simple solution. I did ask to be put on to the MDOT Monday morning conference calls that they have every week. So, I will hear of the news and I can also voice, they said as a city manager, they will listen to you. I will voice my concerns about some of the things that they’re doing, thrusting all this traffic onto our little city, beating up our city roads. Very concerned about that.

(To Smith), Rodgers said did they indicate why the ramps are closed? They don’t appear to be being worked on. Smith said well, they will be. They said it’s gonna take them about two months to finish all those entrance ramps and exit ramps. And it’s just more efficient that it’s the same crew that does the grinding, for example, the first step. They just work their way down and they do all the ramps. And then the follow-up crew that does the vacuuming of all the dust, they go behind them. And then the next crew that does other preparatory work, they just follow along each other. I get it. It makes sense from an efficiency standpoint to do it all at once.

Rodgers said but it seems like some of those ramps sit with nothing going on them for weeks on end. So, can they not just close them when they’re gonna, when it’s their turn to be worked on instead of sitting closed for a month? Jones said it’s fairly typical of large cities – (interrupting Jones), Rodgers said oh, I know, it’s typical. I’m just saying I don’t understand why they do it. Smith said I asked that very question of Bill Behr [spelling?], our representative who says this is the direction that their engineers have laid out, that they will do it this way. Now, enough issues go on, enough pressure comes to bear, maybe they’ll change, but this is the plan.

Rodgers said I mean, I understand the efficiency part. I just don’t understand why something sits not being used when it’s causing, I mean, I’ve been reading on social media about people making little left-hand turns, and I’ve watched it. I’ve watched it happen. And again, we talk about all the ifs and maybes, but I know that it’s typical for them to let things sit with no workmen on it for weeks. We’ve all been in traffic looking at that. But when it has caused such a burden on the city here, Sunday afternoon, it was bumper to bumper on Main Street, like, you can’t even get out of your driveway it’s so bad – Smith said I know – (continuing) Rodgers said and yet the ramps are empty. So, if they’re not gonna work on them until Wednesday, let’s close them on Tuesday. Like, why are we closing them three weeks ahead of time? I don’t understand that. Smith said I will raise that question again next week in the conference call that it’ll be Monday morning, and I’ll bring that up. But I have, I asked Bill that very question today, and that was his answer, is that the engineers recommended it.

Quisenberry said so, it’s just the ramps that are being worked on now. Smith said well, they’re doing other preparatory work. They have the southbound, you know, they did the northbound side last year, and they’re gonna do southbound. So, they’re starting to redirect some of the southbound traffic over into the northbound lanes. So now you have two and two on the northbound side. They still have one lane, I think they’re calling it their local lane on the southbound side, but they’re getting ready for the big repaving, but they’re just doing the ramps first.

Quisenberry said and this construction is supposed to go for how long? Smith said well, the total construction will go to November. But they’re saying that the ramps will be done in about two months’ time. I know it’s a long time, two months is a long time, but they said once those are done, they think the pressure will be alleviated considerably. And Bill’s point was that I think it just needs some time. People need to settle down. They’re all looking, scrambling right now, trying to find the shortest ways, back road, cut throughs, what have you, illegal left turns, U-turns. They’re trying to find a way to get to work on time. And it’s kind of crazy. Now, on a Sunday, I’m not sure what’s driving all that. Rodgers said it’s crazy. I tried to get out of Walgreens and sat for fifteen minutes and finally went out on Dixie and went around. Well, found out that the Dixie ramp was closed as well, so kept going around – Smith said yeah (unintelligible) – (continuing), Rodgers said but because the traffic was all the way down Deer Lake from being – Smith said yes, yes. Casey said on Holcomb. Quisenberry said mm-hmm. Yeah, Holcomb is always backed up.

Smith said it’s nearly impossible to do any kind of enforcement. I’ve talked with Sergeant Ashley today and he’s down manpower-wise. It’s kind of a perfect storm. He’s struggling to get enough officers on the road as it is, let alone station an officer at a certain location, be it Miller Road or Blue Grass or Holcomb, whatever. It’s just not feasible that he has officers at every location.

Smith said Tom [Ryan, city attorney] was supposed to join us online tonight. I don’t see him online. But the conversation with him was that, yeah, there are no easy solutions in there. Certainly, legally, I don’t think, was his comment, I don’t think you could, or at least not stand up in court, close Miller Road, or any other road for that matter, and just say that’s off limits. That’s a, it’s a public roadway, and so it was paid for by public dollars. It’d be hard just to say we’re closing that, or closing it to only allowing residents that live on that road to use it. That’d be a very difficult legal statement to enforce. So that’s what I know about I-75.

Smith said I’m staying on top of it the best I can, and I’ll get more information, and I’ll certainly, to the extent possible, I’ll convey this in my weekly email and over the website.

Wylie said I assume, you’ve mentioned you’re getting lots of phone calls. I know there was at least one email that came through. Smith said phone calls, emails, texts, all of the above. Wylie said okay.

An unidentified man in the audience [later identified as Robert] said it’s like a parade in front of my house, sixteen hours a day. Rodgers said that’s what I was gonna say. Your street is terrible. Robert said maybe six o’clock in the morning, trucks, semi-trucks. I saw like, yeah, city buses. I mean, it’s literally sixteen hours a day. On Saturday, it took me twenty minutes to drive, like not even a tenth of a mile, and four days out of the six days last week, making a left out of my driveway, I almost got T-boned from cars, because they were just so upset. So, I mean, at some point, like God forbid, if something happens, then you know, then what occurs? I understand the whole no-through traffic situation, but in Clarkston and Baldwin, they repaved, they closed down the intersection on Clarkton and Baldwin. There’s Hunter Lake Estate [?] subs, it’s a cut-through. They put no through traffic signs on both entrances, and didn’t have cops patrolling it religiously, but there was signs blocking, you know, the entrance to the sub, so people couldn’t use it as a cut-through. Wylie said the difference is, it’s probably private roads back, if that’s Oakhurst, that’s probably private roads. The unidentified man said no, it’s public. Wylie said is it public road. The unidentified man said yeah, it’s public, so . . .

An unidentified man [later identified as Steve] said I have one comment, if I could, about this. Wylie said you want to, go ahead. Steve said okay, I just wanted to say, I walk around the block every day. One thing I’ve noticed is the increase in speed. A lot of people are just flying up Holcomb, they’re flying down Main Street. Whenever there’s an open street, you know, they are really going faster now than ever, it seems to me. So, I know that’s gonna be an issue one of these days, once somebody gets plowed into because of the higher speeds that are going on here. Wylie said yeah.

Wylie said MDOT has really done a job on us doing all that and not leaving, you know, we’re a small community. We have small roads, even if it was just Main Street, that’s a huge burden on Main Street, being a two-lane road. Rodgers said not to mention what that does to the foundations of those old houses. Smith said yeah.

Wylie said I thought I saw a hand. Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said yes. Yeah, I was just, I’m concerned about, like the timid drivers and Washington trying to turn left onto Holcomb. It’s terrifying, and there was like a young woman who didn’t know if she could go, because so many, and I hate to pick on the SUVs, but it seemed to be, like, the theme, would just get so flustered if they wanted to go straight further back. So, they were jumping the yellow line – Wylie said oh gee – (continuing), Catallo said and going past the ones turning. So, and I clearly don’t know a thing about road design, but they’re like the, of course I thought, gee, if we could have an officer there, but there aren’t extra officers, but I wondered about temporarily making that a four-way stop because it would also slow down some of the traffic, because it is wild, like, it’s, it’s shocking. People are driving on lawns, like the city part of the lawn, not the main lawn, but it’s tearing up all sorts of things, but it’s just, it’s, it’s shocking how long it took me to drive two blocks, and now I know to walk two blocks, but yeah, like, I’m just concerned because people are so sort of angry, and I also wondered too, because Sunday surprised me, I thought Sunday would be a breeze, I didn’t know if trying to have somebody there to direct traffic, maybe when the church lets out, in case that would help, I didn’t know how much of it could be from St. Dan, because it was like around noon on Sunday, but it was shocking how far back it went, but I just thought I’d throw out the four-way stop, even just temporarily as a potential, because then it would give people a chance to turn from Washington. Wylie said that’s actually, I think, a good idea, to do a four-way stop there.

Wylie said anything from anybody else on this topic.

Jones said is, just for not, for informational purposes, is Holcomb, is that, do we have all of that, or is that city, county, and state too? Smith said it’s a mix, so we, the county has White Lake and South Holcomb up to Washington, and then Washington from Holcomb to Main Street, that is all Oakland County Road Commission, so anything that’s done there, four-way stop or others, would have to be approved by the Oakland County Road Commission. From Washington then north up to Miller, the city owns that stretch, and we own Miller. North of the city border, just north of Miller, is back to the Oakland County Road Commission again.

Jones said on the city portion, we could throw in or get some of those temporary (gesturing) – Smith said speed bumps – Jones said yeah, thank you. Casey said no. Smith said if speed was the matter, we could do things like that. My understanding is mostly traffic, and I hear what Steve’s saying, if they see an opening, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gun it and try to make the most out of that fifty feet, but that’s, besides helping on speed, that wouldn’t address the traffic.

(To Smith), Rodgers said I know that you’re trying your best to make common sense, or at least any kind of sense, out of all of this, and I do understand the whole civil engineering outlining of what is most efficient and best for fixing our roads, which do need to be done, but like Wylie said, we’re like a four-street city, and to, first of all, not even announce, I didn’t see anything that said all of this stuff was gonna be shut down, and all of a sudden, these people are trying, like you said, to get to work. There is no easy answer, there’s no way around. I mean, Forte’s street, too, there’s cars constantly going up Buffalo. So they just kinda have to look at that part of the design, implementation, engineering, look at it, and I know you’re trying to do that, but it’s super frustrating when you hear all of this, and I see it, too, on Main Street, it’s ridiculous, and that’s just this week, and it’s not even summertime yet.

Smith said one thing that I explored, because a lot of this traffic coming into town is coming from Davisburg, say, across Davisburg Road, down Bridge Lake, down Holcomb, and then into town. A lot of people are taking Blue Grass across, and Miller, and Washington, to get over to M-15. It was suggested by Robert, and I’ve heard this from other people, the possibility of putting a traffic light, a temporary traffic light at Blue Grass and Main Street. That would allow a lot of that backup on Blue Grass that goes all the way to Holcomb, allow those people to get out, get across. If they’re going basically straight across to get onto I-75, that would be probably a good release and prevent people needing to come down to Miller, come down to Washington, get out at Blue Grass. If they were guaranteed a spot, an opening, they might do that. Smith said so, that is something I wanna talk to MDOT about in next Monday’s conference call. I can broach the subject before that, but I’ll definitely bring it up in that call. I think that’s a good, basically, cutoff of some of this traffic that’s coming into town if we get it north of town. Of course, that’s not the city roadway, that’s MDOT-owned Main Street, but just a thought.

Wylie said that’s a good idea. You see those traffic lights at construction, when they close off a part of a road – Smith said right – (continuing), Wylie said and they – Smith said yeah, they’re on arms. Wylie said yeah, they’re on arms. And I think it’s a great way, instead of having a person standing there at the stop sign, they now use those lights. Smith said right. I wouldn’t wanna be standing out there. (Casey made an unintelligible comment.)

Smith said so, this is work in progress, and I’ll keep working on this. Wylie said great. Smith said but there’s no simple solution here.

Wylie recognized Robert for a comment.

Robert said yeah, just two comments. One, even prior to the construction, making a left out of Miller onto M-15, is it possible maybe to put no left turns from 7:00 in the morning till 3:00 in the morning, because that kind of causes traffic, a lot of accidents, people almost getting hit. I mean, I’m sure you can pull up the data set on seeing how many accidents have occurred at that intersection and during the times, because I’ve seen it myself, you know, and I’m not making a left turn. I’ll just do the loop around town and then come out somewhere else. And then the second thing is, with the increased amount of traffic on Miller Road, is there anything in paper or guarantees that like if the wear and tear becomes so much, you know, because at the end of the day, we’re responsible for that, for that stretch of road, I mean, we get hit with the bill, but then everyone else kind of benefits. I mean, is there anything from MDOT that they’re willing to subsidize or maybe like put a car tracker, because I mean we kind of know how many cars cross on, you know, our streets daily, and if we’ve got a 20 or 40 X amount, you just degraded the foundation of the houses or the roadway exponentially. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie said anybody else.

Quisenberry said having some familiarity with traffic patterns and movement, two things I’ve heard so far today, which I think would be very good to move on as quickly as we could, is the four-way stop at Holcomb and Washington. That would break that up and allow a normal flow through that. And the other one is the temporary traffic light at Bluegrass and [M-]15. Those two steps there, I think, will do quite a bit to start to alleviate some of it. So those are two that I think should be acted on as soon as we could.

Wylie said okay. Anybody else?

Smith said find out. Wylie said okay.

(To Smith), said when you’re finished writing, I know you have one more item on your report about the building services, if you want to talk about that.

Smith said building services, yes, so Carlisle/Wortman was proposing a change in the way that we are billed for building services. Changing it from a variable cost based on the number of permits. They get paid based on the number of permits. Now they want to change a chunk of it to a fixed-cost retainer. So, whether I do 1,000 permits in a year or one permit, I pay the same amount every month. So, I don’t like the idea of a fixed cost. I’d rather we stay as a variable cost. They say that’s not an option. They are moving to this fixed-cost retainer, and it would result in the city paying an 83% increase in building services. So, I reached out to Independence Township. I’m talking to them about possibly them managing our building services operations. That meeting has not yet taken place. I’m trying to get that scheduled. But I may reach out to other firms that do this kind of thing as well on a contractual basis. But in the meantime, because I didn’t respond right away, Carlisle/Wortman has indicated they are going to issue, and they did, a 90-day termination notice.

Casey said how long have we been with them. Smith said probably about fourteen, fifteen years. Casey said and they won’t cut us any slack. That’s bullshit. Smith said they said they will allow us to limp along until June 30th. I said, I definitely can’t do anything this fiscal year. You’re hitting me January 1st. Between fiscal years, I don’t have the money in the budget. Maybe with the new budget we can carve out monies, but that’s even a challenge, 83% increase. So, I know that they have, they have their reasons. They’re pursuing a more profitable model for their company. I get it, I understand it, but we just can’t pay that. So, I’m looking at other options. In the meantime, they notified me they’re issuing this 90-day termination notice. It is what it is.

Forte said I can’t remember who Lake Angeles uses, but I always get them on the phone super-fast. I can’t, and they’re small like us. Smith said yeah. Forte said so, it might be worth asking their city manager who they use. Smith said okay. Forte said I can’t remember the name of the firm. But I think this is a good opportunity to shop other firms because honestly, what are we really getting?

Smith said it’s not a bad thing. We should be shopping other firms on all of our contractual services. [See Clarkston Sunshine comment.] City attorneys, city planners, city engineer, so on and so forth, city auditor. Wylie said it’s time consuming, right. Smith said it’s just, it’s all hitting at once, right. So, I do think this is gonna have to happen right now, but if I’m moving away from Carlisle/Wortman’s Building Services, the next question is, do I move away from Carlisle/Wortman Planning Services? And we go to another city planner.

Smith said so, this is all gonna hit at once, unfortunately. It’ll stay with us ‘til July 1, but then we have to have a planner. Forte said I think you get two quotes, one for just this and the second for both services. Smith said yup. Forte said and I think it’s called McKenna. Wylie said McKenna was our planner a long time ago. Smith said it was previous to Carlisle, but it was McKenna. Forte said I’ve only had good experience with them. I mean, they’re always quick to get on the phone, like you can call and talk to someone within minutes. Smith said yeah.

Wylie said you know Independence Township will say yes, it’s just a matter of how much, because they’re trying to, they wanna get more business. This is what they’re looking for. Smith said but I, my understanding from what they told me so far, I haven’t actually had the meeting, but it will be based on, it’ll be a variable cost. There won’t be a fixed retainer. Wylie said okay, if that’s – (interrupting Wylie), Smith said so, if we pay, if we have ten building permits this month, we pay for ten inspections this month. We don’t have to pay a fixed cost, you know, $5,000 a month or whatever, you know, for a retainer. Wylie said okay. Smith said but I’ll look at (unintelligible).

Wylie said any questions or comments on building services.

Wylie said oh, I’m sorry, and recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said well, I was just gonna suggest that you also open it up to the idea of what we used to have before you were city manager, which was an independent person who was sort of on staff that would come when necessary. I don’t know if any of you would remember, maybe Casey would remember, but yeah, like it seemed to work well, and it was somebody accessible and I believe affordable. So, I just would suggest that that also be an option, because just having sort of one person, I think it would also help with some of the HDC [Historic District Commission] stuff as they have the few tiny things that are administrative approval, that would be great to have somebody potentially locally who could just say like, oh yeah, that’s the roof, that’s fine. Yeah, thank you. Wylie said okay, thanks. Smith said we’ll look into that.

Wylie said anybody else.

No comments.

Wylie said okay.

Smith said lastly, you already know about the deadline of April 22nd to submit your, anybody that’s running or re-running for city council, the deadline is April 22nd at 4:00 p.m.

Smith said okay, that’s all I had, unless anybody has a question.

Wylie said okay, thank you. Is that on, is the deadline, is that on the city website? About the nominating petitions? It’s probably on the calendars. Just because it is an unusual time of year for how ours has typically been.

Agenda Item #8 – Sheriff’s Report (Video time mark 0:29:01):

• • Oakland County Sheriff Department, Independence Substation, cumulative report through March 2025 (page 7/36 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #8 is sheriff’s report, and we have Sergeant Ashley here.

Sergeant Ashley said anything you want to know.

Forte said yes, did you run that report about the incidents on Main Street at Washington. Sergeant Ashley you mean how many we had. Forte said yeah. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, there was only, what, one last year and then one this year. Yeah, that’s it. Forte said yeah. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, that was the one on Washington. Quisenberry said was it Washington and Holcomb. Forte said yeah. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, that was the only one last year, and then this one this year. Forte said wow. Sergeant Ashley said okay. I know. Forte said yeah, it’s better to know than not. Sergeant Ashley said so, yeah, I know, I thought there’d be something else, but that’s all there was. Forte said yeah. Quisenberry said those were injury accidents? Sergeant Ashley said injury accidents, yes. Yes, sir. Forte said thank you. Sergeant Ashley said I think, yes.

Sergeant Ashley said yeah, as far as the felony stuff on here, one was a female driver stopped, had a felony warrant, and the second one was a cocaine possession and a felony firearm, so that was our felony stuff.

Sergeant Ashley said getting back, I know a couple meetings ago there was a question about how come not as many tickets were written, and I was looking into that, and I couldn’t figure it out until somebody pointed out, we have so many openings, not here, but just in the whole county, so we get a lot of people that work here overtime, and sometimes, historically, people don’t necessarily come down here just to write tickets when they’re from another substation. You know, they don’t wanna go, I mean, they still take the calls and reports, but they might not be actively pursuing more tickets or anything like that, and after talking to Smith, and we’re gonna try and sit down, I think Wednesday, at our office and try and figure out what can we do with any of this stuff, because I know it’s gonna be, this is just the start of the problem.

Forte said yeah. I do have to say, we had to call at my house, the police, recently, and the police officer was there in a minute. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, so that’s good. Forte said and he was phenomenal, yeah. So, great work. All around.

Jones said I was just curious, I know you were saying that you’re short-staffed, you’re figuring out how to get everything, which, you know, everyone is, but what about the possibility of sitting an empty patrol car? Sergeant Ashley said we can talk about that. Jones said yeah, I was gonna say, just sitting it somewhere, because, I mean, Lord knows that that empty state-y car at the weighing thing – Sergeant Ashley said slows people down – (continuing), Jones said always slows people down, yeah, and it’s always popping up cops reporting it, so. Sergeant Ashley said we can try that, if the signs are back out now again, the slow, you know – Jones said yeah – (continuing), Sergeant Ashley said and we can run reports, you know, like this, it was, I was really surprised at what we had just on Depot, how many cars go down there. (To Smith), Sergeant Ashley said wasn’t it, a ten-day period or something? Smith said yeah, it was. Sergeant Ashley said it was just a little over a week, it was like 22,000 cars. Smith said 27,000. Jones said yeah. Sergeant Ashley said so, I know the traffic’s gonna be increased, but – Jones said yeah, because just thinking, like, you know, as you’re cresting over the interchange – Sergeant Ashley said you see the car – (continuing), Jones said and you see that cop car sitting right near that BP, or where the dance studio is, or Brioni’s, and they’re like, whoa, we better slow down. Sergeant Ashley said we can talk about that, yeah, that’s a good idea. I know they do it in other states, too, on the highway and stuff like that, so I’ll put that in the notes, for sure. Forte said yeah, park it at Rob’s house. Jones said if not, I’ll just go stand out on the corner with a bullhorn and point it at people like that. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, they don’t know the difference. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, you could have a cardboard box, they wouldn’t know, just, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it’s frustrating, I totally understand that, yes.

Wylie said anybody else have questions or comments. Council or public?

No comments.

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #9 – Consent Agenda (Video time mark 0:32:33):

• • 03-10-2025 Final Minutes (page 8/36 of the council packet)
  • 03-24-2025 Draft Minutes (page 10/36 of the council packet)
  • 04-14-2025 – Treasurer’s Report (page 12/36 of the council packet)
  • 04-03-2025 – Check Disbursement Report 03-01-2025 – 03-31-2025 (page 12/36 of the council packet)
  • Carlisle/Wortman March 2025 invoices (page 22/36 of the council packet)
  • Thomas J. Ryan, P.C. March 2025 invoices (page 24/36 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #9 is consent agenda. This includes the final minutes of the March 10, 2025, regular meeting, the draft minutes of the March 24th regular meeting, Treasurer’s Report from April 14, 2025. And we’ll need a motion and then a second to accept the consent agenda.

Motion by Forte; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said is there, are there any questions or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said any questions or comments from the public about the consent agenda.

No comments.

Motion to approve the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said the consent agenda is accepted.

Agenda Item #10, Unfinished Business (Video time mark 0:33:20):

Wylie said Item #10 is unfinished business. There’s none.

Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 0:33:22):

Item 11a – Resolution: Extension of the Contractual City Clerk Agreement Through June 30, 2025 (Video time mark 0:33:24):

• • Resolution – Extension of the Contractual Clerk Agreement (page 27/36 of the council packet)
  • Agreement to Hire Contractual Clerk Assistant Through June 30, 2025 (page 28/36 of the council packet)
  • Michigan Association of Municipal Clerks Summer Conference Flyer (page 33/36 of the council packet)
  • Conference Fee – $575 (page 34/36 of the council packet)
  • Hotel Fee – $1,086.75 (page 35/36 of the council packet)

Wylie said Item #11 is a Resolution, Extension of the Contractual City Clerk Agreement through June 30th, 2025. And I’ll get to that in just a moment.

Forte said is yellow the only updates? Smith said that’s correct. Wylie said I appreciated the yellow.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and we have the agreement and as Forte said, any changes are highlighted in yellow. So, the date has changed, and it’s mostly dates. I think then the only other change I noticed was about the class, the clerk class. And I think that’s the only changes to previous contracts.

Motion by Forte; second Jones.

Wylie said and is there any questions, comments, or discussions from anybody in council.

Rodgers said so, this should really be the last time we have to vote on an extension, right? Because then they, if – Smith said correct. Rodgers said it’ll be in the next budget.

Wylie said anybody else, questions, comments, discussion.

No comments.

Wylie said in the public.

No comments.

Wylie said okay. We need to do a roll call.

Casey, Forte, Jones, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said the resolution is adopted. Thank you. Next. Oh, so we have also information attached here about that conference.

Item 11b – Resolution: Canadian Goose Nest/Egg Destruction Program (Video time mark 0:36:37):

• • Resolution – Renewal of Agreement to Participate in the Canada Goose Program (page 36/36 of the council packet)

Wylie said and the next piece of new business is Item #11B, Resolution Canadian Goose Nest/Egg Destruction. I can’t read tonight. Destruction Program.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said I guess people aren’t interested in geese.

(To Steve Hargis), Wylie said sorry. I’m saying that because people are leaving. I’m interested in geese. I’m interested in getting rid of them.

(Wylie continued to read from the resolution.)

Wylie said and we do have Steve Hargis to discuss it before we get any resolutions. (To Hargis), Wylie said or if you had any comments to make about this. Hargis said I don’t have any grand thing to say other than just to say I appreciate getting this moved along so that we can act on the project, on the program, and do what we can to limit the goose population as much as we’re allowed to. So, and I’ve had quite a bit of discussion with the MDNR [Michigan Department of Natural Resources] people and they’re in line to receive our resolution tomorrow – Wylie said okay – (continuing), Hargis said or as soon as possible. And we’ll then close the chapter on Parke Lake and West Cork Pond [The resolution calls this the Village West Pond]. The others we have already received approval for the other spots mentioned here – Wylie said okay – so, we’re just lacking those two.

Wylie said okay and recognized contract clerk Angela Guillen for a comment.

Guillen said I do have a question. I just wanted to know, and from Hargis, how would you determine which are the geese eggs and which are a swan? Guillen said because we currently have a trumpeter swan that has a nest out here and they are federally protected by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. And I just feel like that we need to protect the city and make sure that, how is he determining or differentiating between the swans and geese? Hargis said well, the person that is involved, that our main contractor for all this, knows full well what, what they look like. The Goosebuster Man. Guillen said so, he will not be destroying the swans’ eggs. Hargis said he will not mess with the swans. Those are off limits. The geese are the ones that we’re focused on, and they are recognizable by their size and color and everything. So, he knows, he knows what to look for. And we’re not the ones doing this. This is done by an experienced contractor. Guillen said thank you.

Wylie said just for my little bit of knowledge, the female, whoever’s sitting on the nest is gonna stay on the nest as long as possible so they can see what animal is there. And I wouldn’t go anywhere near a swan’s nest. They’re scary. Rodgers said they’re very grandiose, those swan nests. Wylie said and they’re very aggressive. Hargis said they are.

Wylie said Quisenberry had a question or comment.

Quisenberry said how long of a time window do we have before the eggs turn into gooselings. Smith said not much. Hargis said yeah, well, this month is pretty important. And I think it’s up to the first part of this coming month. We have this time frame to do what we can. And I know that there’s a lot more here than you care to know about. But the way the geese do this is they go back and forth to their nest until they get them all laid. Then they sit on them. Then they incubate over a two-week period, I think it is. So, you don’t wanna go too quick. And you don’t wanna go too late. Like if they go too, if you wait too long and the egg is pipped, where they crack through, law says you can’t mess with those eggs. You gotta leave them alone and let them do what they do. But, and then if you go too early and you take what you think are the right number, if they’re cold, you gotta look to see if they’re cold or if they’re warm. If they’re cold, that means the mother goose is out and she’s gonna be back probably to lay more eggs. So, you know, this is a bunch of extra, but . . .

Quisenberry said so, if we pass this now, will they be able to begin immediately to start going and removing eggs? Hargis said yes, because the contractor has all the permits except those two, Parke Lake and Westport [?] Pond. So, he’s already out there in the bush and the lakes and so forth, looking around. And I tried to get an update before I came down here, but I wasn’t able to reach him. So, I’m not really sure where he stands at this exact moment, but he’s been around in this thing for more than twenty years. And I have a lot of confidence in his ability. And this is really good because now we have a target rich environment. We’ve always just focused on the Mill Pond. Well, there’s not very many places on the Mill Pond for them to nest. There’s just not that much dense vegetation around. But down here around this park and also Middle Lake and these other places, there’s a lot of space. Now, he’s never looked over at Parke Lake before. Rodgers said there’s that whole island that is completely uninhabited that they probably have a whole – Wylie said it’s like a nursery over there. Rodgers said little hospital infirmary going on. Hargis said I’m hoping that he’s very successful in all this. Rodgers said all I know is I counted them one day and I had forty in my yard alone.

Wylie recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said so, this is just egg destruction. Hargis said yeah. Casey said this isn’t rounding them up and euthanizing them. That’s what needs to happen. Hargis said I don’t want to go too far into the weeds here or the rushes or whatever, the reeds. But anyway, this has been an ongoing thing trying to get the DNR [Department of Natural Resources], MDNR, to allow us to actually go forward. You notice this may have been, this is written, not to include rounding up. Casey said yeah. Hargis said we don’t qualify, all right, in their new term. Smith said minimum of 100 birds. Hargis said yeah. Smith said we just can’t justify that number so that they won’t even come here. But Hargis is Steve’s right, this is, this is only being, the roundup and euthanization is only being done by the State of Michigan, MDNR. We don’t qualify for that, so we did not put that in here. That’s a very controversial subject. There are many communities dealing with euthanizing the geese and the goose population and it’s very controversial. So, we don’t even qualify, so we did not even think it warranted putting it in this resolution. Wylie said plus, wasn’t, what was the cost? I’m thinking, was it $4,000? Hargis said yes. Smith said yes. Wylie said yeah, that’s . . .

Forte said so, who’s paying for it? Wylie said we would have to, or – Rodgers said no, the egg thing. Wylie said oh, the egg thing, oh, well that I don’t know. Who pays for that? Forte said no, who’s paying for all this? Smith said well – (interrupting Smith), Wylie said does it come through the state. Smith said it would be a combination of the city and it’s a very minimal cost. Wylie said $100. Smith said what is it charged, $20 an egg or something? Hargis said $20 a nest. Smith said so, it’s very minimal cost, so the city will cover some, the Mill Pond Association will cover some. Any of these other lake bodies, if they have a community organization, HOA [Home Owner’s Association], what have you, they would be asked to pay for it. But it’s gonna be very minimal. Wylie said okay. Smith said the euthanization and roundup and euthanization, if we were to go that route, right now, as I said, we don’t even qualify, but if we were to do that some year in the future, year or two down the road, when we have a minimum of 100 geese to be rounded up, then we would have to modify this and put in there the euthanization component of this.

Casey said you threw out the number of four grand. If we were able to raise four grand, would they do it? Despite we don’t have 100? Smith said the number, it’s the 100 number. They want a minimum of 100. Rodgers said how do they know. Casey said who determines that. Rodgers said yeah, how do they know that. Do they tag them? Smith said MDNR makes this decision. Well, they’re gonna come out and look, yeah, see how many you have. And they’re gonna say, yeah, I think we can round up 100 birds here. (To Hargis) said it’s just kind of an efficiency standpoint, from my understanding, is that they don’t wanna come out and find that we only have 50. And we even said, if you looked at them collectively, all five bodies of water, six bodies of water, we think we have 100 birds. But we don’t really know for sure, because they might, we look over here and there’s 50, and we say, okay, let’s go over to the Southern Lake. In the meantime, they fly over there, and we double count them. Well, it’s just, it’s a very challenging number to come up with, but I don’t think any of us felt comfortable saying that we have a 100 in one  location, which is what they’re demanding. Not, they wouldn’t take six ponds add up to 100. They don’t want that. Otherwise, they’d have every city in the state saying, no, we have six bodies of water, and in total, we’d have 200 geese, come get them.

(To David Delasko), Wylie said did you have a question. Oh, I’m sorry. Did you have a question or comment? Delasko said no. Wylie said oh, I thought you had your hand up, okay.

Wylie recognized Hargis for a comment. Hargis said no, I just wanted to say that if we can somehow get a permit to combine all these sites together, that’s our main goal. And I’ve had conversation with the township, and they are aware of what we’re trying to do, and so far, so good. They have agreed to go along with this whole thing, and maybe even split the cost. You know, if it comes down to the point where we can have one site at four grand, you know, we can get the other two grand from them. So, I’m confident that they’ll go along, because all of these lakes are partially occupied by residents of the township, including the mill ponds. So, you know, we already are dealing with the township, so when and if we get to go forward with this thing, the township is along with us.

Wylie said okay, anybody else on this.

No comments.

(To Hargis), Rodgers said thanks for putting the work in. Appreciate it. Casey said yeah, thank you.

Wylie said questions, comments before we need, we will need a resolution. Anybody want to make a resolution?

Resolution by Jones; second Casey.

Wylie said any other discussion.

No discussion.

Wylie said okay, we need a roll call.

Forte, Jones, Casey, Quisenberry, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said and the motion is adopted. Thank you.

Agenda Item #12, Adjourn Meeting (Video time mark 0:49:27):

Wylie said and our last item is #12. We need a resolution, I’m sorry, a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Motion by Jones; second Rodgers.

Wylie said any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said we are adjourned at, I think, 7:50. Jones said 7:49. Wylie said 7:49. Jones said and 30 seconds.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here 
  • 04-14-2025 city council packet