July 24, 2023, City Council Meeting

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order

The meeting was not formally called to order. Eric Haven wished everyone good evening, said it was seven bells, and said they should start the meeting.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:07):

Pledge said.

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:27):

Haven asked Karen DeLorge (city clerk) to take the roll.

Gary Casey, Bruce Fuller, Laura Rodgers, Amanda Forte, Sue Wylie, and Eric Haven were present.

Mark Lamphier was absent.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:51):

Haven said he would entertain a motion to approve the agenda as it has been given to them.

Motion by Fuller; second Casey.

Haven asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:12):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them, but this is a rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not). Mayor Eric Haven has also cut people off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act), another rule that they occasionally adhere to (or not).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short by the mayor, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Haven read the rules for public comment and asked if anyone wanted to make a public comment this evening.

Haven recognized Chet Pardee. Pardee stepped up to the podium and said he was prepared to do this extemporaneously. Haven said they didn’t see anything in the mail today, there was nothing in their mailbox today. Pardee said he only had six or seven hours of work.

Chet Pardee:

Pardee said he just wanted to relate to the council that he did attend the Planning Commission meeting, the previous one, two weeks ago. And he went there to encourage them to support additional revenue in their decisions in that the village really needed additional revenue and that there are buildable lots. We did have development going on at all of them at Waldon and South Main that was going to generate, the numbers he remembers are like $55,000 to $65,000 in taxes, but the development and density didn’t really come together financially, apparently. But we have an opportunity, you can build up, but that’s about the only direction. Plus, the ten buildable the lots. Pardee also related that that he has recommended that planning assume the responsibility for developing the budget because of its connection to CIP [Capital Improvement Plan]. That was something that he had suggested to council several months ago, encourage them to update the CIP to include the two major road expenditures, West Miller, to include it, and also the paver difference, seven pavers whose (unintelligible). So, Pardee was trying to see if he could get them to be thinking about what they might do to help us on the revenue side.

Haven thanked Pardee.

Jonathan Smith [city manager] said a comment, there are two developers that just came forward last week that are interested in developing the Waldon and Main property. So, they’re both familiar with Riverside Capital, who was the previous developer. They’re both familiar with him. He says he does fine work, but they’re going to try to sharpen their pencil and – Pardee said it’s a different group? Smith said two different groups, yes, different than the first one. So, it’s still a possibility. Haven said that was interesting, OK. Pardee asked if the elders of the law know that that is going on for you. Smith said absolutely, yes. Pardee said thank you.

Haven asked if anyone else wanted to address council during public comment.

No additional public comments.

Agenda Item #6, FYI :

Item 6a – Zoning Board of Appeals, Special Meeting and Public Hearing on Tuesday, July 25, 2023, at 7:00 p.m. (Video time mark 0:04:09)

Haven said let’s move on to number six on our agenda, For Your Information, and we have a Zoning Board of Appeals [ZBA] meeting here at city hall, a public hearing on Tuesday, July 25th, like that’s tomorrow. (Casey made an unintelligible comment.) Continuing, Haven said so, at 7 o’clock right here. And so, if you’re interested in attending the ZBA meeting, here’s the place.

Agenda Item #7, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:04:35; page 3/30 of the council packet):

The next item on the agenda is the city manager’s report, which they have in their packet. To Smith, Haven said he would just read the headings so people can kind of get what’s the drift here.

The city hall sign has been installed here at the entrance and parking lot of city hall.

EV [electric vehicle] charging station is active at Washington and Main, but those two units here [in the Depot Road lot] are almost ready. Smith said State Electric has finished their work. They’re just waiting on DTE to install a transformer. It’s on backorder. Haven said he checked the QR code at the one in Washington and Main, the one you mentioned, and it said it’s under construction on the, so maybe they’ve changed that. It was like two days ago or so. Maybe they got it updated he didn’t know. Smith said when he came here tonight, there was a Ford F-150 plugged in there. Haven said so, OK, maybe it works, it just didn’t have the QR code thing going.

Haven said the Clarkston Area Chamber. Smith has joined the Area Chamber board, right? Smith agreed.

Haven said a sewer charge increase is pending.

Haven said an intergovernmental agreement for PEG services. Those are Public Education and Government services to be provided and asked Smith to explain that one.

Smith said so, well, first of all, sewer charges, there will be a presentation by Independence Township in the August 28th council meeting, so, it’s four weeks from now, but they will be coming in and talking about all the charges that are coming on sewer billing. So, we’ve been at $117.42 as our standard rate for just a normal house and we’ve been at that for about ten years [the rate started seven years ago with the 5/1/16-7/31/16 billing]. And so, we are actually losing money right now. Just by a few pennies or a few, maybe 20-30 cents. But we need to increase that because this other increase is coming. So, we’ll talk about that in the August 28th meeting. But suffice to say that there is a sewer bill increase coming.

Haven asked if they are anticipating the big infrastructure issues like we’ve experienced in the past, they’re trying to anticipate. Smith said yes, they do anticipate more of those. There’s one that’s on Greg’s [Coté, city treasurer] desk right now for payment. Smith said it’s much smaller. It’s not the not the $96,000 one. It’s about $17,000. They have enough money in their fund right now to pay that. So, they’re just going to go ahead and pay that, but there are more big ones coming like that Oakland Macomb Interceptor. It broke and had to be repaired. Haven said right. Smith said there are more of those coming and it’s not going to be just one. It’s probably going to be a half dozen. Haven said infrastructure, yeah.

Wylie said she had a question since they’re talking about sewers. Her recollection is that somebody on council volunteered to attend the regional meetings for the – Smith said Great Lakes Water Authority. Wylie said yes. Does anybody remember somebody to do that? Pardee said he recalls that also. Wylie said she thought Pardee was saying he volunteered. Haven asked if Wylie remembered the name. Wylie said it may have been [Al] Avery. Haven said he thinks it was Avery. Wylie said it may have been Avery. That does sound familiar. Because there was a lot of concern because they felt that all of a sudden this happened and they, you know, they had no way of knowing it was happening.

Haven asked if anyone in the audience had any questions for Smith relative to these headings at least?

Smith said he just wanted to jump back to the PEG services if they’re not familiar with them. PEG is the term for Public Education and Government services. Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, they all pay the city and as part of their annual renewal, they send us monies for PEG services. It’s usually 1% of their anticipated revenue from the city. They give that 1% to us to be used for public education and government services, so videotaping our city council meetings is a perfect use of PEG funds. So, Smith has been in discussions with Independence Television folks, and we need to have a formal contract. It was always just loosely agreed that they’d film more meetings, but we never had a formal agreement. They, their attorney, has advised that they need a formal agreement. So, they’re working on that. That will come to a future council meeting. That’s right, Tom’s [Ryan, the city attorney] not here, but Smith will have to review that with Ryan and then bring it to a future council meeting. Essentially what we’re saying is any money we get for paid services from Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, any money that we get on an annual basis will just be turned around and given to Independence Television. So, that’s coming. Smith just wanted to explain a little bit. Haven wanted a round dollar number for the 1%. Smith said yeah, it’s like, it might be right around $2,000 a year. Haven said OK. Smith said $1,918, somewhere around there, a year. Not a huge amount. Haven said OK, all right.

Pardee asked if they had discussions previously about possibly expanding the videotaping to commissions and the council. Smith said yes. Pardee asked if that is on the table. Smith said so, it’s on the table, yes, if we have a contractual agreement with Independence Television, that would be the perfect opportunity to move into that, expanding that, if we wanted to, so HDC [Historic District Commission] meetings could be recorded and made available too. Or Planning Commission meetings could be, that kind of thing.

Haven said that reminds him. He’ll just ask Smith one other question briefly. He met the people at the Chamber of Commerce meeting this week that were here from our service provider for our website. Haven asked Smith if he could give them a little update. He knows Smith has been meeting with them. Just kind of what’s the status of that. Smith said on the website. Haven said yes, he’s not here. Smith said the people Haven met with is one of the bidders. Haven said oh, he sees. Smith said they’re not our current provider. So, we have what, DeLorge has been instrumental on this process, but it’s very important that we update our website to be more user friendly, more just informational, just a better communication tool. We hear that over and over and over again. Communication is key. It’s what our residents expect. They don’t want surprises. None of us do. So that’s what we’re working on is upgrading the website. Effectively replacing it. We got a quote from the current provider. They’d probably be the easiest because they can just basically put a new front end on the old system that’s behind the scenes. And then we’re getting quotes from two other suppliers, and one was here for the Chamber event. They’re a local company, IGD Solutions. So, they are getting quotes on this. It will come to a future council meeting to tell them where their thoughts are on the quotes, and they can, hold on –

Forte asked if all the quotes will include having a searchable ordinance. Smith said yes, that’s key. Forte said OK, she was just curious. Haven said that doesn’t presume our documents are all searchable. That’s a whole ‘nother discussion, right? Smith said that’s a much bigger endeavor. Haven said and costly, more costly. You know, that would be ideal if they get like our codes and so on to be searchable. Smith said the ordinances, they would like all of those to be searchable. [The code of ordinances is searchable now.]

Agenda Item #8, Sheriff Report for June 2023 (Video time mark 0:13:04; page 4/30 of the council packet):

Haven said OK, he’s moving right along, the next item is our sheriff’s report and Sergeant Ashley is here, he’s giving us his typical summary spreadsheet through June.

Sergeant Ashley said through June, yeah, in June, they had 21 tickets written in June, so it was a little a little bit more than they had the last month so. Especially in the afternoon shift, they keep plugging away. They’ve got their afternoon guys that are out there, and they keep going.

Sergeant Ashley said in their last discussion, they talked about Depot Road and the speed and everything else. So, there’s a two-part little pack that he gave everybody there. [This document was not made available to the public a the meeting and was not part of the council packet posted online for the public to review.] And so, they put it, the speed cart, out from 7/11 to 7/24, and the highest speed that they got coming down the hill was 38 miles an hour. Now, if somebody would care to guess how many cars went through it from that time, if they just want to just throw out a number at him. Rodgers said 10, well 1,000. Sergeant Ashley said well, you’re close. It was actually 27,539 cars. Rodgers said no kidding. Sergeant Ashley said that’s how much. Pardee said 27,000. Sergeant Ashley said 27,000. Rodgers said between 7/11 and 7/24. Sergeant Ashley said yes. Forte asked if it was the same day (unintelligible). Sergeant Ashley said no, it’s just from July 11th through July 24th. Forte said sorry. (Laughter.) Smith said I-75 (unintelligible). Forte said she was hearing this wrong. Sergeant Ashley said the dates, sorry. 7/11. Rodgers said that’s still a lot. Sergeant Ashley said that’s still a lot, 27,000 cars. Forte said either way. Sergeant Ashley said 27,000 cars, the highest speed there was 38 miles per hour, and the majority of cars are, it will show in some of the charts. Feel free to look at them and if they don’t understand what some of this means, feel free to call him up and he’ll explain it to them. It shows like, one of the last pages down here, shows volume over time, and the times of day when they were the highest.

Fuller said he thought that having that unit there did help slow people down just like the one when you’re coming into town off of, you know, White Lake. It really has an impact. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, that’s something they can look at, you know, down the road they talk about, maybe he should put a permanent sign up there. Smith said on a permanent basis. Sergeant Ashley said but here’s the stats. They pulled them today. He had them, had their guys – Rodgers said still, 38 is kind of, that’s almost 40. 40 Miles per hour going down that hill – Sergeant Ashley said he’s not saying that’s not fast, but that could be, he thinks there’s one that tells, and he has to look at the graph, that might be only one car that’s going that fast. But on some of these graphs, that will show you the majority, like he thinks it was almost 12,000 of the cars were going between 21 and 25. And then there was another, just over 8,000 that were going between 16 and 20. So that’s a big number. That’s on the last page on the one graph, and those are the speed ranges. So well, so there’s quite a few of the cars that are doing at least 25 or under. And then obviously there’s only a few that were doing between 36 and 40, so maybe that wasn’t too bad for 27,000 cars. It’s not bad at all.

Haven said so, the summary is on the first page, right? And if he interprets that right – Sergeant Ashley said yeah, that’s the overall summary. They can, there’s a bunch of different ways they can run reports on here. Haven said but this is helpful. It looks like the higher speeds occur before 8:00 o’clock in the morning, which would somewhat make sense because they don’t see any reason to slow down, you know, they think it’s early, but once 8:00 o’clock hits, nobody goes over the speed limit doesn’t look like for the rest of the day. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, yeah, it’s not bad. Haven said so again, there’s a sense of danger, you know, there but he’s glad for the – Sergeant Ashley said but still, you know, come down the hill even, at 35, it looks fast, and, you know, we talked about the parking over there and – Haven said but they’re all under 25 after 8:00 o’clock. Sergeant Ashley said yeah, so that might not be too bad then, yeah.

Smith said it doesn’t line up with the second page that shows the max speed. Sergeant Ashley said all right, they can go over that if he wants. Smith said it shows the max speed count all the way throughout the day. Sergeant Ashley said second page. Smith said the max speed is in the mid- to upper thirties. Haven said yeah, you’re right. Sergeant Ashley said the second page of this first one? Smith said max speed. Sergeant Ashley said he needs to decipher some of this stuff. He went over it. Sergeant Ashley asked Smith which pages. Haven said yeah, Smith is right, that’s more what he’s feeling.

Smith said so, this max speed column shows all 24 hours a day. Sergeant Ashley said that would be maybe the max speed that maybe one car went. That’s not for everybody. That’s not an average. That’s just the max speed that it registered at those times. Smith said he thinks these are averages on the graph. Sergeant Ashley said yes. Haven said so, the average speed the next column over is under 25 miles an hour (unintelligible). Sergeant Ashley said yes, if you go one over. Haven said OK, got it.

To Sergeant Ashley, Smith said what he commented to Sergeant Ashley earlier, you know, this is that he thinks. The sheriff’s units sitting there, and it says Oakland County Sheriff right on it, is going to somewhat skew the data because people see that and they’re going to slow down. They don’t want a ticket. So, don’t get him wrong, he’s very much appreciative of what Sergeant Ashley has done here and all the data. Smith just thinks they need to take that into account when they look at solutions for this. What he’d love to have is some, you know, hidden thing in the middle of the pine trees. Sergeant Ashley said you might even be able to get something like that. He can maybe ask his guys about that, if anybody knows about anything, and maybe there’s something they could, you know, attach to a tree or something that nobody really sees – Smith said yes – Sergeant Ashley said and maybe get a little more accurate reading of what the speed is down there. But this gives you a little bit of a basis to start, and the amount of traffic. Sergeant Ashley was a little floored by that too. He didn’t think there were that many cars – Smith said the traffic counts are unbelievable – Sergeant Ashley said coming down through this.

Haven said this is very interesting and asked if there were any questions from the council or comments.

Forte said this is great. Thank you. Sergeant Ashley said no problem. Any time they want to put it out there, they can.

Haven recognized Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said if they’re considering lowering the speed limit then they wouldn’t be getting in (unintelligible). Smith said that’s true. No one should have a problem with it because they’re already going under the speed limit. They should be happy.

Fuller said he doesn’t think it’s so much people wanting to avoid tickets is he thinks people tend to be generally considerate and just don’t know how fast they’re going until they see that thing flashing at them and tells them their speed. And they’re like, oh, I shouldn’t be going this fast.

Rodgers said that she knows that’s how the one works out on Main Street, like when you’re coming off of 75, like, she has gone by there and she knows that it’s, you know, 25, and it’s like 30 and it’s flashing like, oh, you know, slow down and it’s not like you’re thinking I’ve got to speed, it’s just that you’re coming off of 70 miles an hour and you’re, like they don’t, and she thinks that’s kind of, she agrees with Bruce. She thinks a lot of them, it’s just not thinking, you know. (Someone said “recalibrate.”) Fuller said but he thinks for the future, they’re looking for, you know, possible ways to solve this issue if they do accelerate once the thing is gone, to put another one of those things in there and tell people, because with the number of children playing down here and so forth that – Pardee said yes – Fuller said just you know, that’s, to him,  would be like the number one – (Pardee and Smith had an unintelligible exchange) – Fuller said excuse me, excuse me. He’s sorry, he was still speaking. Pardee said in the budget. Fuller said yeah, but he was still speaking. But he thinks, you know, that would be important to have that you know as a consideration. Pardee said yes.

Haven said they’ve talked about traffic calming on Main, for sure, and looking at devices to do that, like striping at the cheap end and bump outs and anything else. But this is another one he doesn’t know that they’ve talked about a whole lot. They put them in some way people will be aware of their speed, certainly, but he’s heard people say in in the middle of Main Street they accelerate once they get past the light too. And he doesn’t, but in Rodger’s experience – Rodgers said sometimes, yeah. Haven said but yes, traffic coming on Main Street is a big deal, he guesses, for houses and that sort of thing, foundations.

Haven said thank you to Sergeant Ashley. This is very helpful. Sergeant Ashley said no problem.

Agenda Item #9 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:21:34):

• • 06-26-2023 Final Minutes (page 5/30 of the council packet)
  • 07-10-2023 Draft Minutes (page 8/30 of the council packet)
  • 07-24-2023 Treasurer’s Report (page 10/30 of the council packet)
  • 07-18-2023 Revenue and Expenditures Report for the Period Ending 06-30-2023 (page 11/30 of the council packet)
  • 07-24-2023 Treasurer’s Report (page 10/30 of the council packet – duplicate)
  • Carlisle/Wortman, June 2023 invoices (page 21/30 of the council packet)

Haven said OK. Next item on the agenda is he’ll entertain a motion to accept their consent agenda, which is the final minutes from 6-26, the draft minutes from 7-10, they’re at the end of the month, and the treasurer’s report from 7-24. They consolidate all these into one motion and all of the bills and so on that supports that. So, he’ll entertain a motion to accept that as a group, unless somebody wants to take something out of there and discuss it separately.

Motion by Wylie; second Rodgers.

Haven asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.

Agenda Item #10, Old Business (Video time mark 0:22:24):

Item 10a – Resolution – Waive Depot Park Rental Fees for a Free Concert by the Clarkston Independence District Library (tabled from the 7/10/23 meeting) (Video time mark 0:22:29):

• • Resolution – Waiving Depot Park Rental fee for CIDL Concert (page 23/30 of the council packet)

Haven said all right. Old business. Under old business, they have a resolution to waive the Depot Park rental fee for a free concert by the Clarkston Independence District Library [CIDL] which was tabled at the last meeting. Haven said he sees the library is well represented here and asked how they all were. He said he’s glad they’re here. They have a spokesperson. That’s amazing.

David Silverman:

The spokesperson thanked Haven for having him back and said his name is David Silverman. Silverman said he is the head of adult services at the Clarkston Independence District Library. So, at the last meeting that he was at, the council asked for just a little bit more information about, just confirming the Friends of the Library’s status as a 501(c)(3), which they supplied to Smith as well as a sample of how the insurance would be written to, you know, not hold the city responsible for anything. They provided a similar, comparable contract, their insurance provider wrote for previous off-site events, that he thinks they had one this last week for an off-site event.

The council also asked for just a little bit more information about the band that is coming, so Silverman just wanted to give a little bit more information about the band. They were organized in 2014. They play a mix of traditional and modern klezmer music, along with some different styles touching on jazz. Israeli dance music, modern Balkan, and just kind of a whole variety of music, including instruments, the flute, violin, trumpet, clarinet, saxophone, trombone, harmonica, bass, tuba, piano, and percussion. Diving into the band a little bit more, they have made appearances at the Milford Friday Night Live concert, they’ve played at Eastern Market, at the Ann Arbor Festival, they’ve played in the concourse of Little Caesar’s Arena as like, you know, pregame entertainment and things like that, they’ve played at the Ferndale District Library where he lives, they’ve played at the West Bloomfield Library as well as numerous area synagogues and assorted nonprofits. And they also provide some basic dance instruction for some of it. So, from everything he’s seen, it really gets the crowd into it. Families and kids love getting up there dancing, learning some different styles and everything. And again, just to rehash, their Friends of the Library group is funding the concert itself, so they are just hoping that the city will provide the gazebo as an in-kind contribution for the event. And again, the main purpose of the event is to just have a library event off-site to connect with and serve residents that may not always make it up to the library but also to feature Depot Park as well.

Haven said OK and thanked Silverman for his explanation.

Haven said he would read from the resolution and take motions to adopt.

(Haven read the resolution.)

Haven said OK, he’ll entertain someone who wants to move to adopt this resolution.

Motion by Wakefield; second Rodgers.

Haven asked if there was any discussion.

Forte thanked Silverman for coming back with all the information. Silverman said it was his pleasure.

Haven said it was interesting. He was curious about the 501(c)(3) status of the Friends, and he was glad to see they are. But the library itself can’t be, right, because they’re a district library and they’re funded by tax – an unidentified woman said they are a government. [The woman was later identified as “Julie” – Julie Meredith is the Clarkston Independence District Library director.] They’re actually, their status is municipality special district. So, it’s a little bit more like a school district. Haven agreed and said it’s good that they are. So, which enables them to have a little bit more flexibility as far as, yeah, charitable. Very, very nice.

Haven said OK. Well, you guys are certainly givers, you know, to our community and he appreciated Meredith’s help with some research he was doing just recently. And he thinks he remembers Meredith saying before that’s what they do. They’re librarians. They do research, you know, and that’s been very, very helpful to him. You guys do a great job over there, not to mention all the other array of things they do when you’re online, you know, all the things for kids and events, everything.

Haven asked Meredith to tell him, if she doesn’t mind, just taking an aside, she, several years ago when they talked about with the electronics day and age in which we live and the viability or sustainability of libraries, bricks and mortar libraries. Meredith went through, and Haven went through with her, kind of thinking through what’s the library of the future look like. Is it going to disappear as a bricks and mortar entity, and Meredith took on some other services to the community which really pleased Haven in terms of being a forum for public discussion and so on. They experienced that as council several times. Haven asked Meredith to give them a little update on how that’s working, is that still a current kind of service rendered and so on.

Meredith said it is something that they can do, they’ve used it in a couple of different ways. So basically, what they have is Harwood training from the Harwood Institute, and it is designed to allow for civil conversations about what could potentially be a tough topic. It’s considered a kitchen table conversation. It’s a small group discussion, so you bring 8 to 15 people together and the library would come in as a neutral facilitator of the conversation. They did one for Depot Park. They did one for a single garbage hauler, which she thinks was very, very helpful. And they did the focus groups for the school’s strategic plan as well. They held several of those, so it’s been very successful. It’s a lot of fun to do, and essentially what they do is they act as the neutral party. They let everybody talk, they write it all down, and then they provide a summary to the powers that be so that they have information that they can utilize to move forward. She thinks the Depot Park one, especially, what came out of that was truly what was needed was a master plan. Haven said direct plan. Meredith said that was over the steps that you took for the park. Haven said yeah, a Harwood woman showed up for that one and really worked for this as well, so that’s very, very helpful.

Haven said one other element that they are pursuing, and it’s kind of a good time for this to be more broadly known, and that is their relationship to the historic district and the historic district activities, especially the Historic District Study Committee, which Nancy [Moon] represents, has done so much work on, and then the future of that. Between the two of you, do you want to just tell us just where you are and what you hope for.

Meredith said so, the website is attached to the library’s web page, but it’s also at clarkstonhistory.org. So, you can go in and see that. It was started in 1994 by Bill and Sue Basinger, and it was with an LST grant, which is Library Services and Technology Act. So, it was a grant from the Library of Michigan. It was very cutting edge at the time. Essentially, it was a website that was an online walking tour in 1994, and it was raw HTML, which, as she said, was cutting edge at the time, but over the course of time it became less and less compatible with modern devices. And so, the board, the library board, made a concerted effort to pull money together and have it redesigned. They used IGD Solutions to do that and they turned it into a database, which means that each house in the historic district has its own record, and the records have fields, and they can change one little piece of information in that field and anywhere that house shows up on the website, that information is replicated. So, if they ever find a mistake, it’s really easy to fix. It’s not good to go page by page and fix the mistakes and fix the replacement pages throughout the website. From there, they started working with the Historic District Survey Committee so that certificates of appropriateness, photos, all sorts of things can be uploaded, and it is a one stop shopping website on all of those beautiful houses in the historic district. In addition, this past year, they added a youth page which is The Walking Tour. So, second graders, as part of their curriculum, have local history, and they utilize that website for their local history walking tour, and as grown-ups, you can go in and see exactly the tour that they take, and it is a really cool walking tour. There’s also an interactive map, so you bring up the actual Oakland County Historic District map and you can click on any property, and it takes you right to that, the house’s pictures and all the information that they have on the house.

Haven said and (unintelligible) just a little bit about where we’ve come from the original district, which was made in the 80s to prevent MDOT putting 4 lanes through downtown. So, Jennifer (unintelligible), they picked the four corners of this district, OK. And they did research on the four corners, basically, but that was like 35 houses, and there wasn’t a whole lot of detail, and it was just enough to get it, get the state stopped, right, from using federal funds to put a highway through town. Now what they’ve done with their study committee, they’re up to, what 176, did she say, properties? Moon said 176 structures, and there’s a hidden barn that they’re hoping to – Haven said 177 would that be? Moon said 177, and once the surveys are completed, and basically what she has left is North Holcomb, then she comes in and visits this building frequently, and she’s going through all the street files to see if she can find any additional information, because they want to know what modifications have been made to the house since it was built. And they get what they can out of the street files. If there’s an old COA [certificate of appropriateness] from 1996 or 1983 in the files, she’s photocopying that, and Meredith is scanning those agreements into the system. Once all those are done and they figure out how to write this summary committee, this data is requested to be written by a professional, which means money. She’s trying to find a professional who is retired and will do it for free. To do that, basically they’re trying to write the draft and see if they will approve it and bless it to make sure it’s in the state’s format. Everything will be sent to the state, and then all the survey information with local library, and they will start being uploaded into the Walking Tour. So, all the information will then be (unintelligible). Haven said so wonderful collaborative. He thinks it’s probably iconic, you know in the, in the country. He doesn’t know where other communities are doing this kind of thing, but he thinks it’s trendsetting, doesn’t Meredith? He doesn’t know.

Meredith said when they were trying to update so it will be mobile friendly and that sort of thing, IGD was starting to look around, and they looked around at other communities, and it is very unique. There is not another walking tour out there outside that is like the one that we have. It’s really a great resource and it all started back in 1994, and you can actually go to the bottom of the page and if you click on it, you can look at the classic website and you can see the actual website as long as technology will support it, they’ll keep it up there so that you can see actually what was created in 1994. It’s really cool for those of us that know what the technology is like. For young people that are going there, they’ll be like wow (unintelligible). (Haven made an unintelligible comment.) Meredith said but it really is a testament to the hard work that was put into that back in the day. And the other thing that’s really nice about it is that it’s built on a platform that allows them to expand it. So, if the homeowners have interesting pictures of cool features within the house that they would like to upload and share, they would be happy to put those on. You have a cool fireplace or an interesting chimney. Or you have something that you would like to share that’s interesting in your home that you’ve put it out there. It’s also a great resource for anybody who’s buying one of the homes in the historic district. They don’t have to come into the library and say, hey, what do you have. They can click on their home, and it’s all listed there. Haven said that’s amazing. Meredith said all of the people who owned it previously, whatever they have continuing to go onto it.

Haven thanked Meredith for all her hard work. They’re tremendous givers to them. Haven just loves the uniqueness of it for Clarkson, he means, this sets us apart from the rest of the country, you know. So, it’s one more of those things we can go, yep, we’re ahead of the game, you know. And he thinks about QR codes for the future. He keeps thinking about that, you know, relative to all these houses that maybe.

Wylie said excuse me, but she would like to request that they go back to, they’re on a resolution right now, and she thinks they’ve kind of drifted. It’s interesting and she appreciates what you guys have to say, but she thinks their discussion right now should be on this resolution.

Forte said she’ll make a motion to approve the resolution. Are we past that point? Haven said it’s already been made. Forte made it and it was seconded by Rodgers. Forte said all we have to do is vote. Haven said all we have to do is vote. To Wylie, Haven said again, this is background, OK, which gives a little bit of the idea of the flavoring of how they’re giving back to the community. That’s the reason for the discussion. So, it underscores – Wylie said she thinks they got pretty far off. Haven said it’s of interest, doesn’t she think? Wylie agreed.

Fuller said he had to look up what this kind of music is, klezmer. Silverman said yes, it’s a mixture, he would say largely Eastern European influences, but it kind of takes from all over and blends it into some stuff that people here may not have heard too much of. Fuller said, so, probably a really pleasant sound. Silverman said yes, it’s very family friendly, it’s very upbeat. Fuller said it sounds good.

Haven said excellent. All right, they have a, Forte has moved to adopt, and Rodgers seconded it.

Haven asked if there was any further discussion from the council or audience.

No discussion.

Haven said OK, hearing none, would DeLorge take the roll please on this resolution.

Casey, Wylie, Rodgers, Haven, Fuller, and Forte voted yes.

DeLorge said the resolution is adopted.

Silverman said thank you so much.

Haven said yes, thank you. Thank you all for coming.

Haven said all right, now he will move on from old business to new business.

Haven recognized DeLorge. DeLorge asked if she could say one thing before they get started. She just wanted to say something that she sees daily from the library too, just to thank them for the little library out here and the one at Washington. She goes home that way every day, she sees the kids and adults, they use the books, they read them, they put them back, and she just appreciates it. And it’s just a really nice thing to have, and the library maintains it, which is really nice. Haven said he wanted to bring that up because he’s been curious about, it started with a private group didn’t it originally? The Little Free Library. Meredith said a Girl Scout group. A Girl Scout group put both of them in. Meredith offered to help them at the time but they wanted to do it on their own. Haven said right. Meredith said they’ve all since grown up and she suspects they’re in college right now. They were starting to get a little bit worn, and so our Friends of the Library were willing to take them over. They were restored using memorial money in memory of Carol McNally. So, they used that money to restore the two here and then they put in two new ones in the mobile home park over on (unintelligible). Haven said oh, cool. Meredith said the Friends of the Library fill and maintain all four of those and now. They’re in conversation with the park, Glenwood Park, to see if they can add a couple of things as well.

Haven said very nice. OK, thank you for bringing that.

Haven recognized Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said so, at the risk of frustrating Wylie, Meredith mentioned Harwood training that they have. And really, it’s a facilitation process. Haven said right. Pardee said he doesn’t know – Haven said and reporting. Pardee asked if Haven was on council when they did in 2016. Haven said sure, yeah. Pardee said it’s just been once, he knows, but a half a dozen times he’s stood here (pointing to the podium) and said that he encourages using Meredith’s process to have a discussion among council members about the priorities for the city, and it’s his judgment that there’s very little conversation among them, certainly in this meeting, and Smith essentially establishes the priorities, but Pardee thinks there should be more involvement. Haven said the agenda. He appreciates Pardee. He’s been heard on that one. So, Haven said to Meredith that he thinks maybe they may have some opportunity in the future to exercise that right.

Haven recognized Wylie for a comment.

Wylie told Pardee she has no objections to people speaking at the meeting. To her, they were in the middle of a vote on something and that’s why she thought they should stay on the topic, that’s all.

Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 0:40:19):

Item 11a – Motion: Nomination and Voting on the Renewal or Replacement of Two (2) Planning Commission Members and Two (2) Historic District Commission Members (Video time mark 0:40:23):

• • Motion – Planning Commission and Historic District Commission Appointments (page 24/30 of the council packet)

Haven said OK, next item on the agenda under New Business now is a motion for nominations and voting on the renewal or replacement of two Planning Commission (PC) members and two Historic District Commission (HDC) members, and the two Planning Commission members up for renewal. And it was interesting when Haven started contacting these people and remembering kind of what went on about this that they hadn’t been on there that long. And so, Smith and Haven talked about this, and the fact that they’re having to be renewed now means they’re filling out the term of someone else, probably before them. So, these are three-year terms. Is that true in both cases, HDC is three-year as well as the PC’s. Haven asked Smith if he remembered, and Smith agreed. Haven said all right. So that being the case then, Haven has heard back from Kevin Knapp and Andy North, right, as well as Melissa Luginski and Jennifer Radcliffe from the HDC. So, all four of these would like to continue to serve. OK, so that’s the nature, so they’re not in the mode where they have to renew, or they don’t have to appoint. So, in fact with all four of these, they can renew. And this is just in motion form, but it also is here, and roll call. They’ll just take a roll call for this.

Haven said he would like to make the motion that they renew these four and he’ll look for a second. Haven asked who would like to second that. Second Fuller.

Haven thanked Fuller and asked if there was any discussion.

Wylie asked if the motion was for taking all of them together. Haven said it’s written that way. There’s no reason not to Haven didn’t think, since they know why, if there were differences then they could break them off, but they’re all in that mode where they’d like to –

Fuller asked if the person had to be a resident for these commissions. Smith said yes. Haven said he would guess yes. Fuller said so, if Mrs. Luginski sells her home, then they’d be back – Haven said yes – (continuing), Fuller said council would be back looking for another person. Just curious.

Forte said was there anyone else who, like, applied for the HDC? Haven said not to his knowledge and asked Smith. Smith said not recently. Haven said Smith posted it. Smith said not recently, there were some a couple years ago, but they have not continued to express interest in it.

Rodgers asked does the number of people that sit on each one of those committees, is that like a mandated number? So, you can only have X number on that committee? Smith said he thinks the Planning Commission, he’s read, can have up to nine members. There can be as few as five up to nine. He doesn’t know so much about HDC. Rodgers said OK. Smith said five to seven seems to be average that they’ve seen. Haven said and they’ve decided to stay there. They talked about making them larger in the past, and they decided among them.

Rodgers said she just asked because what they try to accomplish is so grand that sometimes it seems that it’s an overwhelming task for five people or seven people, you know, turnaround time. People are getting less patient with waiting for a meeting that might only be held, you know, in two weeks from now, or three weeks from now and, you know, trying to get, if they come to look at your property, you know, you have to get X number to be able to come, so before they vote. So, to get two to three people at certain times, you know, it’s a hardship – Haven asked if Rodgers is talking about the HDC – (continuing), Rodgers said for that group. Rodgers said HDC, yeah, she’s speaking of. So, you know, they sometimes get a bad rap from things, but it’s because what they intend to do is big and the number of people that they have to actually accomplish that, it’s not so big, so that’s why she asks is that confined to five people or seven people or could you have a group of, you know, ten people, or twelve people. Haven said it’s a timely question because Jim’s [Meloche, HDC chair] on the agenda. Maybe they can discuss that. [The HDC ordinance posted on the city’s website provides for a five-member commission.]

Meloche said well, historically it’s been five. Haven said the ordinance doesn’t (unintelligible). Meloche (unintelligible) said it’s pretty carefully spelled out in the ordinance by the kind of credentials people have to have and all that, but he thinks as long as there’s a number where you can a quorum. Haven said that’s the problem they’ve had in the past with quorums.

Wylie said with planning, there was a lot of talk over the years about moving it to seven because sometimes it was a hard time, especially in the winter, to get a quorum, getting the people to have a quorum. But then you run into it’s hard to get seven people who are interested, who will apply to be on the Planning Commission. So, they may even, did it ever move to seven. She can’t recall. Haven said they talked about it. Wylie said this would have been like before 2015. Meloche said he would look into it. Wylie said she was talking about planning. She doesn’t know HDC.

Meloche said they belong to the National Association of Preservation Commissions and that puts us in a network where they can poll HDC’s all over the country and ask a question like that. So, if it isn’t spelled out in either the state law or our local ordinance, they’ll find that out.

Haven recognized Cara Catallo for a comment.

Catallo said it is spelled out in our local ordinance. So, if you look at the ordinance, it should say how many you should have and if you wanted to change it, it would be a matter of voting to change it and just maybe expanding it, obviously not going smaller. That would be inappropriate. Haven said so it starts with HDC. It’s not a range, it’s a given number. Catallo said right. Haven said he thinks PC is a range if he remembers correctly. [The current city ordinance provides for a five-member planning commission; state law provides for 5, 7. 9 members. MCL 125.3815(2).] But they could opt to be bigger because, again, the workload is larger too.

Haven said OK, they have a motion and a second for this. They have a, yeah, he made the motion, Fuller seconded it. Haven asked if there was any further discussion about these four as far as renewing positions.

Forte asked if they should reach out to the people who had interest in the HDC previously in reference to the fact that Luginski might be moving soon. Smith said they can. It’s been, like he said, it’s probably been two years since they expressed interest, so he’s not sure if (unintelligible). Forte said OK. Smith said they can, and if Luginski sells her house, that will be a discussion they will have to have. Forte said OK. Haven said it will happen at another point.

Haven asked DeLorge to take a roll call please.

Wylie, Rodgers, Forte, Casey, Fuller, and Haven voted yes.

DeLorge said the motion is adopted.

Haven thanked DeLorge.

Item 11b – Discussion: Historic District Commission Status Report (Video time mark 0:47:34):

• • Clarkston Historic District Commission 2021 Activities (page 25/30 of the council packet)
  • Clarkston Historic District Commission 2022 Activities (page 26/30 of the council packet)
  • Clarkston Historic District Commission 2023 Activities (page 27/30 of the council packet)

Haven said next on their agenda is 11b, which is a discussion of the Historic District Commission status report. He wants to thank Meloche for being very faithful and appearing here quarterly, he thinks, pretty much, hasn’t he – Meloche said yes – (continuing), Haven said come to give them a report and Meloche has a nice report in the packet. Again, everyone in the audience, you can always download all this, you know, this is there for every meeting. You can go and download the packet, so you know exactly what all the documents are, and Meloche is giving them a really nice report here with pictures. Moon probably helped with the pictures. Moon said she did not, unless he asks for it.

Haven told Meloche the floor is his.

Meloche said he happens to have the Act 169 of 1978. (Haven made an unintelligible comment.) Meloche said that it says that, OK, the membership of the Historic District Commission in a local unit having a population of less than 5000 individuals shall consist of not less than five or more than seven members. Haven said oh, that’s right. OK, so it isn’t a fixed number. Meloche said it sounds like it’s the same as the Planning Commission.

Haven said very interesting. All right, so we’re at five now. He asked Meloche to go ahead and please give them his report if he would.

Jim Meloche:

Meloche said OK, he sent out some information and he included information from 2021 and 2022 so they could understand where they are in 2023 and (unintelligible). In 2021, they heard 26 cases, 25 of which were certificates of appropriateness, and notice to proceed, so 26 approvals. In 2022 – Haven said he wasn’t seeing this. He sees the array of properties. He doesn’t see a summary.

Wylie said this is ‘21. The next page is ‘22. Haven said so he has a, is this the same thing? Wylie said it’s the same thing. Haven said the same thing, OK. He thought he had a summary page. OK. Meloche made an unintelligible comment.

Meloche said in 2022, they heard 20 cases, 18 of which were certificates of appropriateness. Two were notices to proceed.

Meloche said so far in 2023, they have heard nine cases. He thinks it has to do with the cost of construction and the (unintelligible) building contracts. That’s the feeling he gets when people ask about (unintelligible) in the historic district. Yeah, I’m thinking about it, but I’m going to wait ‘til prices come down.

Meloche said so, in the sheets that have the detail, for this year, he loves with all the pictures, eight certificates of appropriateness and one notice of denial. And what did they want to do that was causing denial? It isn’t what they wanted to do, it’s what they did. The homeowner destroyed historic materials. She hired a crew to come in on one day and remove historic windows that were 100 years old and in perfect condition. And he knows that because he had to deny the work. Now that is, that was the fourth appearance by the homeowner in three years. In the first appearance, she did the work without coming to the HDC and used the argument that she didn’t know she was in the historic district, so they helped her fill out the application. The two little ones went perfectly well – made an application, did some work, they approved it. She got her certificate of appropriateness. The fourth one, without getting a building permit, without coming to the HDC, tore out all the windows and took it to the landfill. That’s why they denied it.

Wylie asked so, what happens now that it’s denied but the windows are gone. Meloche said the notice of denial states that she has to replace them in those, or actually put the original windows back, but she can’t do that, because she destroyed 12 of the 14. It states, clearly, that it has to be remedied. She has to remove the vinyl windows that got put in and replace them with more appropriate windows, and there are companies that make historic wooden windows. That’s what she has to do. Wylie said OK.

Forte asked which one it was. Meloche said it’s at 9 Miller.

Wylie said just out of curiosity, how was Meloche able to obtain the two windows that were not destroyed? Meloche said (unintelligible) he just saw the work being performed and by the time he got there, most of the windows had gone to the landfill. And he asked, are there any left? He said I have two in my truck, and Meloche said put them in his car, OK. And Meloche was on public property, he did not go on the homeowner’s property without her permission. And he wasn’t on personal property when he took possession of the windows. He actually has three; he has a basement window as well, and the nice thing about windows that are 100 years old that have been painted shut is that 100 years later they’ve been encased and protected and the part that they could see where the paint had peeled is like the day they were born.  And the windows are all intact, and it’s wavy glass. It’s a shame that most of them are gone, but they have a plan to meet, they were going to try to meet tomorrow. Unfortunately, Smith is going out of town. Meloche needs him. Haven will be involved. The city attorney will be involved. The enforcement person for the city will be involved and they’re going to decide what to do next. Wylie said OK.

Meloche asked if anyone had any other questions on any of the other properties? Every one has a story. They met some really great people and did some fun work. (Meloche’s next comment was unintelligible due to background noise.)

Haven said it was very helpful.

Casey said under the date column, there’s three numbers. So, if you look at 523 and 623. It’s the same house in two different addresses. Down on the last page. Both are supposed to be 66 East Washington. Meloche said it’s the same house (unintelligible). Casey said but it’s two different addresses. (Forte made an unintelligible comment.) Meloche said it’s 66 East Washington. (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Casey said if you look at those of the date column number, 523 and 623. It’s the same house with two different addresses. DeLorge said they are two different addresses for May 23^rd. (Fuller made an unintelligible comment. An unidentified woman approached Meloche at the podium.) (Reviewing the document), Wylie asked Rodgers if that was her house, and Rodgers agreed. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Meloche told Casey that was based on two different events. It was the same, 66 East Washington. The first time that they talked to them, one of the commissioners noticed that they had taken a lot of siding from the house. Meloche went to look at it and he knows Brett Badish (spelling?) as an architect, and he knows he wouldn’t do wholesale gutting like that, and it was very minimal. He was painting his house and he found that some of the siding had deteriorated. Your water splash, your flashing through them, and the pieces were random lengths, but they were exactly the profile of what is on there. And he took it back to the commission and they deemed it to be repair. They met on it. Meloche put it on the list but there was no action taken.

Forte said you’re allowed to do repairs, but not mass replacements. Meloche said yes, and it has to be obviously a repair it, it can’t be massive. The example he uses is 123 North Main, the yellow house (unintelligible). They wanted to fix the southern exposure. That’s always the one that takes the beating on the outside. A lot of the wood came down (unintelligible) They lost, so they wanted to take boards from the other side of the house, but they had to intersperse some Hardie plank pieces in there. So, they let them move small pieces from the back of the house and use short pieces of Hardie plank. And it got painted yellow and you can see the old and the new. That’s one way of fixing deteriorating wood.

Haven said he noticed the vintage of the pictures is older. What’s the source of the pictures? They’re older for sure, the vintage of them. All these pictures Meloche is referencing. Meloche said he got these from Luginski. Haven said these are archival for sure. Meloche said the Walking Tour. Haven said the Walking Tour. Moon said the Walking Tour pictures are not (unintelligible). Haven said oh, that’s for sure. Moon said they are not replacing the Walking Tour pictures because she made an arrangement with Bill [Basinger?] that they would not change the information. What was in the record, they would not change. That’s the arrangement they made. Haven said yeah, these are interesting historic pictures.

Haven asked the council if there were any thoughts or comments for Meloche on his report?

No comments.

Haven asked if the audience had any comments.

Haven recognized Pardee.

Pardee said he’d alerted Meloche that he was going to ask a question about 42 West Washington. He was wondering about the status. How many years has Meloche been working on this. Meloche said about three or four. (Unintelligible crosstalk at council table.) Pardee said he knows the history. Meloche agreed (unintelligible) at SHPO [State Historic Preservation Office] and now it’s at the state court. And he believes it’s in ten days (unintelligible). Meloche said he would get it from Ryan. He thought he might be here. The state court of appeals is hearing it. (Unintelligible comment from Fuller.) (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Forte said it’s about this one right here on Washington. Meloche asked if Forte had heard what he said. She said she didn’t hear the address, sorry. Meloche said 42 West Washington. He asked if Forte knew the house. Forte said yes. Meloche said and it’s been, the owner has been trying to demolish it for years. They’re trying to prevent it because it’s a remarkable house. It’s a candidate to change from noncontributing to contributing. Wylie said it’s been more than four years. Moon said it’s the only house of that style in the village. That’s the only reason they want to maintain it. Forte said it’s the mid-century modern one that’s like right opposite the Mill Pond. Fuller said yeah.

Meloche said it’s worth trying to get a tour of that house. It’s remarkable inside. It has craftsmanship like he’s never seen in a house that old. And there was an elevator in it. The shaft is still there. There was a large turntable that brought food from the kitchen to the dining room that the children who grew up there used to ride on. It’s really cool what’s inside it. Haven wanted to know if they were represented at the hearing at the Methodist Church. Wasn’t one of the kids represented over there in that previous meeting. They lived in that house. Moon said yes. Haven said he came to that meeting, didn’t he. Yeah, very interesting.

Item 11c – Discussion: Parking Activity & Income Report (Video time mark 1:01:57):

Haven said OK, their last item here on agenda before adjournment is 11c, discussion of parking activity and income. They don’t have anything in their packet about this and asked Smith if he could update them on his learning.

Smith said he didn’t have anything formal to give them because DeLorge and Smith are working on redeveloping a report that Jennifer [Speagle, former clerk] had maintained before she left. In fact, it was a report that Smith originally established or developed that contained all the information on parking that you could ever want. It had the revenue from parking fees and how many people paid. And then it also had revenue from the online app on your phone, broke those out, and then it went into expenses, sorry, then it went into parking tickets, so their whole enforcement endeavor, went through all the details of that and what type of tickets people were receiving. And then it went into the parking fees, which were subtracted from the revenue above and gave you a net revenue per month. So, it was a very detailed report, he’s sure they remember seeing it, but it hasn’t been updated since Speagle left. So, Delorge and Smith are working on this to kind of recreate this and get it going again.

Smith said but, he did have some numbers to share with them, and in total, as far as revenue goes, for the first six months of this year, they have revenue of $17,500 from the kiosk. And another $2,500, almost $2,600 from the parking app, the online parking app, which is growing. You know, the first few months that they offered the parking app, it was only like $100 a month. People just weren’t using the app, but he’s happy to say that more and more people are using the app and he gives some credit to, a lot of credit to DeLorge, because every time somebody comes in and then they got a parking ticket and they didn’t want to leave their dinner and go out and feed the meter, she always brings up, well, here’s a flyer on the parking app, you should take one of these with you, so next time you’re at dinner with your friends, you can update your parking status right from your phone. You don’t even have to leave your table. DeLorge said no waiting in line, you can sit in your car, you pay for your parking, you get out, you go to the restaurant. It will drive you nuts when it starts getting close to – Rodgers asked DeLorge which app it is. DeLorge said it’s the Passport app, and she has little flyers, and anyone that gets the citation, the citation officer will put one of those little flyers in with the citations, don’t get the ticket again, we don’t want you to get a ticket, we want you to enjoy our city, you know, and pay the parking. But if you have the app, it could be (unintelligible). You don’t have to wait in line. It could be snowing. You could be in the restaurant, your sisters won’t quit talking, and then you just add more time into it.

Smith said Delorge has used a 3D printer that she has to even create a little info box that they’ll put on each kiosk. Jimi [Turner, DPW supervisor] is going to install those on the kiosk, so it’ll have these flyers in there. They’re trying to educate our patrons on using the app. It’s so much easier. You don’t even have to stop at the kiosk. You can just walk right past it. So, she’s done that. And she also ordered some bags, some little, tiny zip lock bags that our parking enforcement officers, on a rainy day, will put the citation in and a flyer for the app, and put that, zip it up, and put it on the windshield.

Fuller said they could put a sticker in there too. You have a nice day. Haven said it differentiates us from the (unintelligible).

Smith said they get a lot of people that just say, well, I came out and it was raining, and I turned my wipers on, and something went out the window. I didn’t see it. Well, that was your parking ticket. And they think they’re done with it, and they forget about it ever happening, and then three months later, they get a bill in the mail because just leaving the citation behind doesn’t alleviate the charge. They have their license plate, they have access to the DMV [Department of Motor Vehicles – in Michigan, it’s the Secretary of State]. So, they do also want to send them a bill in the mail.

Smith said anyways, back to the numbers. So far this year for six months, this does not include Depot [Road paid parking] yet, because that came online July 5th. But January 1st through June 30th, $20,102. Total parking revenue, that’s not citations, that’s just parking fees, $20,000. And last year, 2022, for this same time horizon, was $19,200. So, we’re up about $1,000 year over year, which Smith is happy to say, because coming out of COVID, it took a long time for people to start coming out and patronizing the restaurants again and patronizing our parking lots. So, they’re seeing it come back. The fact that year over year, it’s not down, it’s slightly up. They’re heading on the right trajectory. So, next month, Smith hopes to have a full, updated report that will include activity in the Depot lot. So, DeLorge and Smith will work over the next month. Speagle used to bring this to the second council meeting of every month, a parking report, and they’ll get back in that rhythm and give them all the details. But that will include the Depot lot, which Smith thinks they’re going to start to see revenue coming in from. They are already seeing revenue, of course. Haven said great. Smith said so, that’s a quick status update. If they have any questions, he would be happy to – Haven said Maggie [no last name provided] had a question.

Maggie [likely Maggie Sans, parking committee member] said she was just going to, for public comment, even though it’s not public comment time, the parking committee is meeting again tomorrow to come up with further recommendations. She knows that’s been a little bit unsolved for reasons etcetera. The only other thing she’d interject here is she may have a ticket out there now. She’s tried three different cards. She keeps getting network error, invalid card, try again. So, she’s had different errors on the Depot lot. She’s tried three different cards. So, there might be people who get tickets who come in with that complaint. She’ll tell them it’s going on for her right now. They might want to work with the app company or something like that because there does seem to be some level of glitches in there. Fuller asked if this was a little bit of preemptive – Sans said this is her, asking them about her parking ticket. So anyway, they might need to work with the company a little bit.

Smith said OK, well, yeah. Sans said she’s not really sure. She’ll send, she took pictures of it. Smith said they are working with the kiosk manufacturer, come to find out that their SIM card talks to the cloud through the Verizon network. It was not activated by Verizon, so they’re in the process of getting that activated. It’s just taking a while, but they told Smith that it will still work, that the kiosk is working just fine, it just can’t communicate with the cloud, so Smith has to go out there every two or three days and download the app and bring them back to his computer, all those charges, and then it activates them that way. Sans said she just did it only with the app, she didn’t try the kiosk, so just record, so for whatever reason, it’s just tonight. She used it in the past. DeLorge thanked Sans for letting them know. (Unintelligible cross from Fuller.)

DeLorge said she tested it because she wanted to see it. So, she just put a dollar on there now with her own credit card. She wasn’t parked over there, but she knows her plate number, so she just kept doing it to test it. And no, if you have problems, if anyone has problems, let DeLorge know, because that’s how they fix it, because she doesn’t run a dollar through it every day, but she tries to keep up on that and keep them working with it, and they should have that SIM card and everything corrected soon, shouldn’t they? Smith said they are working on it, yes.

Haven said one of the other things he talked about with Smith was not penalizing people who come to public meetings in the evening, you know, during this period. So, he doesn’t know if you guys have kicked it around or not in the parking committee, maybe kick it around. Just to reward people or not, disincentivize them from coming to public meetings. DeLorge said she had an idea about that too, that her car, Smith’s car, she can park in that parking lot for the meetings to give residents somewhere to park so they don’t have to pay, so they can park in their parking lot. It was an idea, she had it tonight, where she parked next to Smith, and she thought she should probably park in the paid parking. Haven asked if she meant giving residents a place in the inner lot. DeLorge said yes. Haven said that’s minimal. Other people will park out there for their meetings and, so, if they could find a way, you know, maybe a voucher system or something, it’s just like when you go to a hotel, they give you something to cover your parking charges. He didn’t know.

Smith said he is looking into the whole notion of permit parking, and you know, the committee looked at, they’ve talked about this too. It’s not an easy solution to implement some kind of permit or pay in advance. The realtor called Smith the other day and said she doesn’t mind paying the dollar, but she works until 5:00. It’s paid parking and she said she’ll happily pay it, but how does she pay it like a month at a time? She doesn’t want to go out there every day or even go on her phone every day. Can she just pay for 30 days right now, $30? And Smith said it seems very simple, seems very logical, but the technology isn’t quite there, but he is working with the kiosk manufacturer. There is a permit ability. They just have to see how it gets done. It’s a work in progress.

Haven said all good stuff and thanked Smith.

Agenda Item #12, Adjourn (Video time mark 1:13:06):

Haven said all right, they have come to the point of adjournment, and he’ll entertain a motion to adjourn.

Motion by Wylie; second Rodgers.

Haven asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Haven said the motion carries. They are adjourned.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here
  • 07-24-2023 City Council packet