Month: April 2025

Introduction: 

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine. 

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (video time mark 0:00:01): 

Sue Wylie said all right, everybody, it’s 7 o’clock. So, I’m going to call the meeting to order at 7 o’clock. 

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (video time mark 0:00:04): 

Wylie said if everybody would rise, we will say the Pledge of Allegiance. 

(Pledge said.) 

Wylie said thank you. 

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (video time mark 0:00:26): 

(Erica Jones entered the room.) 

Wylie said Item #3 on our agenda is a roll call, and we’ll slowly get our roll call. 

Sue Wylie, Al Avery, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Erica Jones, and Ted Quisenberry were present. 

Laura Rodgers was absent. 

Wylie said thank you.  

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (video time mark 0:00:52): 

Wylie said Item #4 is approval of the agenda. I need a motion and then a second to approve the agenda. Would anybody like to make a motion?  

Motion by Avery; second Casey. 

Wylie said any discussion from council. 

No discussion. 

Wylie said any discussion from the audience or the public. 

No discussion. 

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.  

Wylie said and the agenda is approved. 

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (video time mark 0:01:19): 

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act). 

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.] 

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments. 

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.) 

Wylie said would anybody like to make public comment. 

Bruce Handrinos said I’m sorry real quick. Wylie said yes. Handrinos said this is my first time. Wylie said welcome. Handrinos said I’m just curious if it’s not like if it’s on the agenda, like the sheriff’s department I wanted to speak, can I speak at that time? Wylie said if you would please, yes. Do we have sheriffs? We actually we don’t have that on the agenda. Handrinos said I thought it was supposed to be on the agenda for today for the approval of the – Wylie said oh, you’re talking about for the contract on the sheriff’s department. Handrinos said yes. Wylie said it’s not on the agenda. We’re not discussing it today. So, if you would like to make a comment, you may. If you don’t mind standing up at the podium. Handrinos said I can come back at that time too then I take it. Wylie said OK, yeah. And then when it’s on the agenda, if you want to speak on it then. Handrinos said yeah, I thought it was supposed to be on there today. Wylie said OK. Handrinos said OK. Wylie said you know, OK, never mind. Go ahead. Handrinos said what. Wylie said I was saying I did listen to the meeting, last meeting. I did think I heard it mentioned that it was going to be at the next meeting. Handrinos said it was in the paper that it was supposed to be – Wylie said if it was on paper, well, it has to be right. Handrinos said well, that’s where I got it. Jonathan Smith (city manager) said that was the plan. We since got delayed from the township. They’re trying to get a meeting scheduled with their attorney, our attorney, and everybody together. So, it did get delayed. Handrinos said ah, OK. Wylie said well, we’re still glad to hear from you.  

Handrinos said all right. Well, so, my name is Bruce Handrinos. I’ve lived in the city for about twelve and a half years now. Wylie said I’m sorry, you’re not required to say your name, but do you mind spelling it, just that you did say your name? Handrinos said Bruce. Wylie said Bruce, B-R-U-C-E? Handrinos said yes. Wylie said OK.  

Handrinos said so, I’ve lived in the city for twelve and a half years. I actually work for a police department. Actually, Chief Quisenberry hired me – Forte said oh my God – (continuing), Handrinos said seventeen years ago. Quisenberry said yes. Wylie said OK. Handrinos said so, I have a little bit of knowledge about police departments and how they should work and what should be done. And as I said, I’ve lived here for twelve and a half years. And I have seen in my neighborhood, I live on Overlook, I’ve seen in my neighborhood the sheriff’s department ten times. Three of those were for when Judge, I can’t remember his name – Wylie said Fabrizio – (continuing), Handrinos said Fabrizio’s house, when he had a broken window, three of those times were for an extra check for his house. Wylie said OK. Handrinos said so basically, seven times in twelve and a half years that I’ve seen the sheriff’s department. Two of those were on medicals. Two other times, they were called to the neighborhood for issues, and it took them over thirty minutes to arrive. Another time, they were called, but it was me actually texting a buddy of mine that worked on the shift there out of the Independence substation, and he came right away. Other than that, it’s been thirty minutes. And then I saw him three other random times in the neighborhood. So, I have concern that I’ve lived here twelve and a half years, and I’ve seen him ten times. And like I said, three of those were for extra check. 

Handrinos said the police department I happen to work for, we are very customer oriented. We give the citizens tremendous service. And if I were not in the neighborhoods patrolling every single day, that would be a problem. I’d get spoken to about it. The fact, like I said, that I’ve only seen him ten times in twelve and a half years, I’m really disappointed, and I don’t think that we’re getting anywhere near the service that we pay for. I literally live across the street from the substation, and like I said, ten times in twelve and a half years. And half-hour response time for calls. I’ve called him twice, and it took over half an hour both times, and the substation is literally across the street. I was under the assumption that we, and I could be completely wrong, but that we had like, some kind of dedicated, like, there would be at least one or two that would service our township, or I mean our village, or something to that effect. (City attorney Tom Ryan shook his head no.) Handrinos said but I see you shaking, and that’s not the case, I guess. Okay, so if we’re paying for this service, we should have at least a deputy per shift dedicated to our village that’s gonna be very close and take care of our needs. 

Handrinos said you live in my neighborhood – Wylie said yes I do – (continuing), Handrinos said and we have the beach. And on the weekends in the summertime, we have all kinds of problems with the teenage kids down there driving, you know, recklessly through the neighborhood, all kinds of stuff, never any sheriff’s department. I know that the association had a meeting with the sheriff’s department and asked them for some extra checks to come down there during the weekend. Nope, never, not once have they been down there to check the area. Then last year, we had fireworks every single weekend. I don’t know if you’re all aware. Oh yeah, every single weekend. And if you’re not aware – (pointing to Forte), Wylie said she’s not disagreeing with you. She’s shaking her head like that’s awful. Forte said I heard it, but I didn’t know where it was coming from. I live on Buffalo, so like. Handrinos said OK, it’s really close to, it’s on the other side of the lake. I believe it’s probably Independence Township. But either way, the sheriff’s department patrols Independence Township as well as ours. And fireworks are only allowed by law the day before a holiday, the day of a holiday, and the day after a holiday. And these are happening last summer. It was every single Saturday night, there were fireworks and these are the kind that go in the air and are so loud that they basically shake your house, scares my dog. I have to get up at 3:45 in the morning and these are going off till midnight and it’s keeping me up. Call the sheriff’s department, nothing is done. Not a thing. That should be proactive patrol. If there’s fireworks in my city, we’ve got officers dispatched to them and we’re finding out who’s doing it and we’re issuing tickets if we find them. Like that should be a proactive patrol. Something should be done about that, but it’s happening all the time. So that’s where I wanted to come, and I wanted to find out what are we paying for because we’re not getting it and something needs to change so that we get some service for what we’re paying for. Because they’re certainly not spending any time in the village. Wylie thanked Handrinos. Handrinos said OK. 

Wylie said do you need to be contacted for when this is on the agenda. Handrinos said that would be great. Wylie said do we know for sure it will be on the agenda next – we don’t know for sure. Smith said we don’t know for sure. We’re still trying to get the meeting scheduled. Handrinos said I mean, I can keep looking. What is it, two meetings a month? Wylie said two meetings a month, yeah. Handrinos said all right. Wylie said second and fourth Mondays. Handrinos said second and fourth Mondays. Yeah, I’ll pay attention then. Wylie said OK. Handrinos said I just, you know, it’s good seeing you, Chief [Quisenberry]. I haven’t seen you in a long time. Quisenberry said it’s been a while. And let me tell you something about Mr. Handrinos. He was number one in your academy class? Handrinos said I actually was number two. I got beat out by two-tenths of a percentage point. Quisenberry said OK, uh-huh. I remember back at that time, and it was a nephew of mine that was right up there with you with it. But he was very, very well-qualified, so. Wylie said you remember it from seventeen years ago. Quisenberry said I can’t remember what I had for dinner, but. Handrinos said well, I can’t either, so. Wylie thanked Handrinos.  

Wylie said anybody else have public comments. 

Forte said can we just talk about that. Wylie said yeah, if you would like to – Forte said just about this topic – (continuing), Wylie said address that, sure.  

Forte said so, what is the next step. Will you remind me? I’m sorry. Smith said well, it’s our plan to bring back a contract that Ryan and I have reviewed and feel it’s something that should be voted on by council. But before we do that, we wanna make sure we have all the right components in the contract.  

Forte said that’s what my next question was. So, what does that typically include? Smith said well, this is an all-new agreement from the ground up. It’s from scratch. They’ve written something. Some of the things, they have some things in there that we don’t think need to be in there, and they have some things that we do think need to be in there and are not in there. So, it goes both ways. Handrinos said are they also increasing, excuse me, increasing like 15% or something like that? Smith said that 15.2 is the mandate from the board of commissioners to the township. Now, they’re not passing quite that much along to us. I think we’ve done the math. It comes out to be thirteen-something percent. Handrinos said I’d like a 13% raise. Smith said so yeah, we’re, we still have more work to do on it. So, it’s not for the lack of trying, but we’re working on getting a meeting scheduled where we can review it. 

Forte said so, when he was talking about having, like, one designated police officer, we don’t have something like that. So how does it typically work? Ryan said it’s really on a complaint basis or, you know, when they’re passing through the village on their way to places or to the substation. We don’t have any dedicated patrol, but we do have complaint-based and random visits.  

Jones said if you read the language of what was in the packet that we received last meeting, they made it even more vague than that. Ryan said right. Jones said now it’s going to be, they will have people in the village as they have the availability. So, we, yeah. So, the way I’m seeing is that they’re asking us for a thirteen and a half percent increase for a guarantee of nothing. Smith said yeah. 

Forte said could we add, like, something, like, that says, like, we need a patrol once a week, like, at a minimum, like, just to – Avery said right, the contract is – Jones said yeah – (continuing), Avery said with the township, not with the sheriff’s department. So, we have to get this township to agree, and then they would have to relay that to the sheriff’s department, right? Ryan said and frankly, the county’s making an exception for us because we’re so small, that normally they won’t let you piggyback on another entity’s contract, but they’re letting us do that through Independence.  

Wylie said are we the only community that does that, piggybacks. Ryan said pretty sure. Okay. Handrinos said I think there’s others. But I mean, we had, correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t we have a, we had a dedicated police department here until 2011? Ryan said ‘10 or ‘11, right. Handrinos  said ‘10 or ‘11, right. Nancy Moon nodded and said yes. Handrinos said OK, now obviously, we’re kind of at the county’s mercy because really that’s all we’ve got. Either that or you ask for the state police to patrol, but they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna – Ryan said no, that’s not, look, we don’t want them to go take this contract in the open, frankly. Sorry. Handrinos said I get it. Ryan said but we got Waterford Township. I mean, it’s just, we don’t have any quick fix right now. There may be longer term solutions out there, but you know, we’re just a small unit and we need to have some kind of police protection. Handrinos said I fully understand that, but we’re not getting anything, basically. And if they’re just gonna drive through on M-15. Avery said we’re not, we’re getting service. It’s not the level of service that a dedicated police department – Ryan said right – (continuing), Avery said would give us. But we knew that when it came up for a vote and the residents voted it down. The millage increased. Michael Moon said by two or three votes. Avery said yeah, it was close. Michael Moon said I thought that’s two or three votes have lost.  

Quisenberry said but in all fairness and in full disclosure, the contract, Independence Township does not have a specific set of, this subdivision gets this much patrol, this one here, they randomly patrol the township, including the city, as needed. If they’re on runs, they go to the runs. If they’re not on the runs, they just do randomly patrol through the area. This much, as much as down on Hadley Road, as much as over by Sashabaw Junior High, all that area. So, there’s really no area in the township that has a dedicated spot that gets special attention. They just patrol the whole township randomly and respond to runs as called. That’s how it’s done across the whole township, including our little piece. 

Wylie said thank you.  

Wylie said anybody else on council have anything else to say on this topic. 

No comments. 

Wylie said does anybody else have public comments. 

No comments. 

Wylie said OK, close public comments. 

Agenda Item #6 – FYI – April is “Pinwheels for Prevention” Month: (video time mark 0:14:37): 

• • April is Blue Pinwheel Month in Clarkston flyer (page 3/36 of the council packet) 

Wylie said Item #6 is FYI, and we have one item. It’s on how April is blue pinwheel month for Clarkston. And this is put on by the Clarkston Area Youth Assistance. And you will see blue pinwheels. And I can’t even read this thing without my glasses. That’s why I keep doing that. 

This is to remind us about, all of us are empowered to help prevent and mitigate child and adolescent adversity in all forms, including child abuse. And so, if you see the pinwheels, remember that. And Nancy [Moon] passed out something. I think you can still purchase pinwheels. I imagine you could see somebody from Clarkston, (to Nancy Moon), Wylie said are you in Clarkston Area Youth Assistance. Part of that organization? Nancy Moon said I’m not part of that organization, but you pick them up at the library. Wylie said OK, all right, thank you. Nancy Moon said several people asked me last year, how do I get pinwheels. Michal Moon said because they noticed that we had them. Wylie said OK, so go to the library (unintelligible crosstalk between Nancy Moon, Michael Moon, and Sue Wylie). 

Wylie said OK, all right, thank you. So that’s certainly a worthy organization. And that’s all I had for FYI. 

Agenda Item #7 – City Manager’s Report (Video time mark 0:15:43): 

• • City Manager Report, March 24, 2025 (page 4/36 of the council packet) 

Wylie said next item is Item #7, city manager’s report. And Smith has something included in our packet.  

Smith said yes, so a couple of these I’d like to expand upon. 

The MML [Michigan Municipal League] CapCon Conference last week, capital conference that I attended, was a really good event. I was very happy that I attended. There’ve been some mixed results over the years, but this one was a really good one, and I was happy I was there.  

Smith said four particular sessions popped out to me as something that I should share with you. First of all, there was a presentation or a discussion with Dan Kildee and Fred Upton, both retired House of Representatives, Michigan House of Rep. They were there to talk about some of the things going on in Washington, and how as a local municipality do you react? And there’s no silver bullet here. They made it very clear, we’re kind of along for the ride, and you should buckle your seatbelts, because it could be a rough ride. But he said there are some concerns, some of the cutbacks in Washington right now are going to result in challenges for local municipalities. So, they were very frank. They weren’t holding back at all. They were telling us this could be some rough times, but they did a very good job of kind of summing up the issues and that people need to be more focused on helping the people, and not just about getting some dollar budget approved for their favorite project. And they said it’s gonna be a challenge. So, the MML folks said that they would continue to keep us posted on this.  

Smith said in fact, it was later in the afternoon, there was a session on what do you know. It was more of an interactive, rather than a lecture-based event, interactive to talk about what do you municipalities, there were about 60 municipalities in the room, and they said, what have you heard? Costs being cut, grants being cut, that kind of thing. And so, they went into a lot of detail. I think even the moderator was surprised how many communities raised their hands and said, well, we just lost this grant, or we were just informed that our funding for this is gonna be cut. So that was kind of an eye-opening session to sit in on. A lot of things going on there. 

Smith said also in the afternoon, I attended a general session where Brian Barnett, the mayor of Rochester Hills, spoke. If you know Barnett, he’s a very good speaker, and just does a great job of explaining. And he went into detail about the, just as kind of a warning for other communities about the shooting at their, the mass shooting at their splash pad last summer. Fortunately, nobody was killed in that incident, but there were a number of people, I think it was thirteen people who were injured, shot or injured. And he talked about this being such a surprise to him and his staff that this happened in their community, but obviously it can happen anywhere. And he said there’s no playbook for this kind of thing, but you need to get ready. He says you should be, everybody should be getting ready and getting the right structure in place, the right people in place. Just a very simple thing, getting all on your phones, getting all the contacts you could possibly need. And he says not just the sheriff’s office, not just the fire department, but counselors, counseling services. You should have those people on your phone. Anybody you think might be able to help because you really rely on the various community leaders, the head of the Rotary, the head of the Optimists, whoever, people that are leaders in your community, you will lean on them. So, you should have all those contacts in your phone because should there be an event like this, he says I certainly hope none of you have to go through what I did, but it, you need to be prepared. So that was kind of an eye opener. I’m trying to get a copy of the video for that because it was really a powerful talk. People in the audience were crying. He said he was crying multiple times in the event. It just felt helpless. I couldn’t help these people. So, it was an eye-opening event that I think we can all learn from and maybe get prepared as a result of.  

Smith said I sat with our legislator, the House of, Michigan House of Representatives legislator, Mike Harris. I had breakfast with him. And all these years I’ve been going to the legislative breakfast. This is the first time my legislator actually showed up. It wasn’t Harris in previous years, but to his defense. But this year Harris was there. In fact, his office called me the day before asking if I would be there. And I said, yes, I will be there. He said, well, good. And Harris will be joining you. And he did. And we had a great discussion about things he can do to help us. And we had a long list of discussion, everything from budgetary help to grants to help with MDOT. He said, I have some good contacts with MDOT. I can help you there. It was just a really good discussion. I also asked that he’d come to a council meeting periodically. This is his district. And I would like for him to come to a council meeting quarterly, perhaps, and give you an update on the things he’s working on in Lansing.  

Smith said and then last thing, we’ll hear about this later in the meeting, because it’s on the agenda. I had a good discussion with a city engineer, not our city engineer, but an engineer, who is on the Clarkston Rotary, and I’ve met years ago, and I’ve been staying in contact with him. He suggested that we be looking into something called Congressional Directed Spending. This is funds, these are funds that are made at the federal level to the House and the Senate, and they decide internally on what projects should be funded. They vote on this, and he says, this is big money. If you have a project, so he was asking me, do you have a big project that you don’t have a prayer on how you’re gonna fund? And I said, yes, I do. It’s our downtown streets and paver aprons. I have no solution for that. They’re not ADA [Americans with Disabilities Act] compliant, and the paver walkways and driveways are just pothole ridden, and I don’t know how to fix this. It’s probably a million to a million and a half dollars that I don’t have, and I don’t know when I will have. He said Congressional Directed Spending would be perfect for that. It’s ADA compliance, it’s about walkability, it’s about attracting people to your community. He says, I think you would have a good story to tell here. So, Lisa McLain is our House of Representatives rep that I would be sending this to, and we’ll hear more about that when we get to that item on the agenda, but it is something that I really took to heart in what he’s suggesting, that you should be doing this every year. He says, hasn’t your engineering firm been, aren’t they letting you know of the upcoming deadlines for this? I said, no. So, he said, well, that’s a problem. 

Smith said so anyways, that was the first two items on here, the CapCon conference, and the Congressional Directed Spending, and the rest I think you already know about. So, I think I’ve spoken enough, so I’ll bring that to a close unless you have some questions.  

Wylie said anybody has questions on city manager’s report?  

Forte said I don’t have a question, but yeah, just a comment. But I’m so glad that you did all that at that conference, and that you were able to feed that back to us, because obviously we have a great engineering firm, but it’s great to get, and I guess that might have been a different conversation, but still, like, it’s great to have this diversity of conversations that are bringing back good information, and I just, I’m really thankful that you’re a go-getter, and willing to do all these extra things on top of, like, your day-to-day, because this might be the creative solution that gets the stuff done, you know what I mean? Smith said and there’s a good chance that we will be turned down, but I think we need to be trying, and we need to be going for it every year. Forte said well, yeah. Wylie said there’s 100% chance we’ll be turned down if we don’t apply for it, so let’s go for it. Forte said yeah. Wylie said I’d much rather be optimistic and say, this is it, we’re gonna get this one. Smith said if you don’t apply, you have a zero chance of getting it, so we need to be in there trying to hit a home run every year.  

Smith said this conference has just got so much information to be learned. Every year I go, I feel like I come away with something that I didn’t know about, but this year, I think, was exceptional. Forte said yeah, and thanks for sharing it with us, because, like, we still need to learn more about, like, what these options are, like, you know. Smith said right. Forte said so, it’s great, thank you for sharing. Smith said thank you. Wylie said I’ll piggyback on one – (to Jones), Wylie said oh, go ahead, go ahead. 

(To Smith), Jones said I was just gonna say, if I’m allowed to in my capacity, I’m happy to help with anything on this Congressional Directed Spending. This is the kind of stuff that interests me, so I’m happy to provide assistance where needed. Wylie said OK. Jones said if I’m able to and allowed. Smith said absolutely, and we’ll talk about that when we get to the last item on tonight’s agenda, but I am looking for council’s approval to proceed with this application for Congressional Directed Spending. And there is some financial connection there, so we’ll talk about that. Wylie said OK, thank you. 

Wylie said I did have a comment on, I was not here at the last meeting, but I listened to the last meeting, and I was interested especially in the discussion on pedestrian safety based on, there was a recent accident, and I actually talked to the people afterwards at Two South Brunch House, I can’t remember, Two or Three South Brunch House, and they told me they saw it. And they, I think one of their waitresses was the first person who called the police about it, and they were horrified. I think anything you need, they would, I thought by then maybe they had already passed on the information. You’re looking surprised. Smith said no. Wylie said so maybe they had not. I should call the city manager and talk to him about it. But yeah, so Brian, the manager, is the one who first told me about it. And I think Maria, one of the waitresses, one of the servers, I think it was Maria, or Janine, one of them anyway. They were really shook up that they had seen it. Smith said yeah. Wylie said and saw the car, they had some information about the car, they didn’t get a license plate. But anyway, but you know, it seems like we have these conversations about pedestrian safety and street safety. And this afternoon I was looking, trying to find through old agendas, we had that whole Complete Streets. (To Forte), Wylie said yeah, I think you were on that committee. Forte said yeah. Wylie said and there’s somewhere, there’s piles of paper and a PowerPoint project that has – Forte said yeah, I have it – (continuing), Wylie said okay, because it has information and suggestions of what we can do to help make our pedestrians safer and, rather than going back and trying to recreate. I did not see what you were presenting, but it sounded like you were presenting some great visuals about no turn on red, and different ideas for crosswalks. But we have a lot of that stuff that was done, and that was done in, I think, with SEMCOG [Southeast Michigan Council of Governments]? Were they working on it? Forte said yeah. Smith said SEMCOG and MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation]. And unfortunately, MDOT eventually just said, look, we just repaved the street – Wylie said right – (continuing), Smith said and put in some curb repairs and replacements. We’re not gonna tear up the street now. Wylie said right. And the cost of everything was, that was part of the problem, the cost to do.  

Wylie said but there is some, there’s gotta be some things that may be available in there. Forte said and I would think that our engineering firm could, like, take it from here and come up with even a conceptual plan and put a dollar amount that we can use. Wylie said (unintelligible) it’s the dollar amount. Forte said but, I mean, like, that should be included in our plan that we submit for these sidewalks, like, let’s jumble it all up together and submit it, like – Smith said for instance, the bump-outs. Wylie said yes, the bump-outs. Smith said that were big items in the congressional, I’m sorry, in the – Wylie said in the Complete Streets Program. Smith said Complete Streets, thank you. That, I would bundle in, as you’re saying, I mean, I would bundle that in with the Congressional Directed Spending request, and do all of it at the same time. Sidewalks, driveway aprons, and the bump-outs, to get our pedestrians more visibility and safety. Wylie said yeah. The bump-out, actually, that was the term I was using when I was searching on the city website, bump-out. Because that was a big part of their, of that program.  

Quisenberry said what is that. Forte said I can pull it up on my phone. I have it on Google Drive. Wylie said the sidewalk kind of comes out into the street. So, like at Depot and Main Street, this both, on both sides of Main Street, the sidewalk would come out, and the pedestrian would be standing a little closer to the street, but it would still be a sidewalk, right before, right, and then they could proceed across the crosswalk that way. And it tightens traffic up a little bit. Being a narrower street, it causes traffic to slow down. And I think you were talking about it a lot in the meeting, that it makes the pedestrian more visible at that location, at Honcho and Harrison’s. Casey said yeah. Smith said all of the above. Wylie said yeah, all those places. Smith said yes. Quisenberry said and also, removing those two parking spots – Wylie said right – (continuing), Quisenberry on the east and west side. Smith said we talked about that last meeting, yep.  

Forte said before we, like, get too far, since that meeting, I’ve almost got hit again, with Alice and a girlfriend. Like, I was, it was like, stroller, me, and another person, and we almost got hit again. Casey said where. Forte said right, not on the side of Two South Brunch House, but parallel on the other side. So, I was just like, I couldn’t believe it. I was like, I cannot believe we just talked about this, and then we’re, like, in the Matrix, and I’m going through it again. Like, it’s just like crazy that we keep having these situations where people are like, zipping in and out. And like, I did this Complete Streets plan with Anne [no last name provided], and anyway, and like, I think we need, like, a few seconds where there’s no, like, no one’s going, just pedestrians, like. Wylie said I do too, I agree with that. Forte said because people just try to, like, jump through, you know what I mean? Which, I get it. Wylie said it’s been suggested, these are all things that have been suggested over the years. You know, add the four second pause. Casey said you were on the Moose Lodge side? Forte said the Moose Lodge. Smith and Casey said Masons. Forte said no, the opposite. Ryan said did you get a plate. Forte said so like, what. Ryan said did you get a plate. Forte said no, I mean, I was just kind of like, because like, I pulled her, I pulled, like, because it’s, when they rush in front of you, it’s like, they would hit the stroller. So, like, of course, I like, pulled her back real quick. Wylie said protect the stroller, that’s your – Forte said and I’m like, like, I didn’t think to even look. Like, because I’m just like, trying not to flip people off in, like, downtown Clarkston. Like – Wylie said she’s on city council – (continuing), Forte said I’m like, I’m like, throw my metal water bottle at their car. Like, just like, what’s wrong with you? Like, you kill a baby in a stroller? Like, for what? Like, even if you had to go to the bathroom, like, is it worth it, like – Wylie said but we do, maybe we need another meeting where that PowerPoint presentation just needs to be presented. Forte said yeah. Wylie said I mean, that puts you on the spot a little bit, but you get Rich [Little, former planning commission chair] probably wouldn’t, I shouldn’t speak for Little, I don’t know. Forte said no (unintelligible crosstalk between Wylie and Forte). Forte said I feel like everyone, yeah, I feel like everyone was on the same page with this. It’s just like, we gotta get MDOT and like, our city engineers and like, someone to help us, like, get this through. Cause it’s like, like, what if it would have been my baby that would have been killed? Like, are you kidding me? Wylie said or anyone’s baby. Forte said like, like anyone. Yeah, like.  

(To Smith), Wylie said but if you have new contact with MDOT, maybe that will help instead of being told constantly, somebody has to die before we do anything. That’s a ridiculous statement. Forte said well, yeah, and I do want to see those police reports of like – Wylie said that’s a great idea – (continuing), Forte said you know what I mean. Like, what are the numbers of people getting hit? And like, like, but it’s like the near accidents. I wish we had the numbers of those, cause it’s like, there’s so many little close calls. Like, I don’t know. It’s just crazy. Wylie said I think probably everybody in this room could report something. Everyone’s nodding their head. Forte said like, it’s just crazy. Jones said it’s OK, because we put up the speed sign and it said that the average speed was meeting the speed limit. So, so.  

Wylie said but I’m sorry to rehash this whole thing. I know, I listened to it, and it meant a lot to me. And I think we’ve talked about this before. And hopefully something will come of this. And I do think the little flags may help a little bit. Smith and Forte said I hope they do.  

Wylie said anybody else have anything on a city manager’s report? Forte said no, sorry. 

Wylie said OK, thank you. 

Agenda Item #8 – Consent Agenda (Video time mark 0:33:01): 

• • 02-24-2025, Final Minutes (page 5/36 of the council packet) 
  • 03-10-2025, Draft Minutes (page 7/36 of the council packet) 
  • 03-24-2025, Treasurer’s Report (page 9/36 of the council packet) 
  • 03-20-2025, Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 02-28-2025 (page 10/36 of the council packet) 

Wylie said next item on our agenda is #8, consent agenda. This is the final minutes of the February 24th, 2025, regular meeting, draft minutes of the March 10th regular meeting, Treasurer’s report for March 24th, 2025. And I need a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented. 

 Motion by Jones; second Forte.  

 Wylie said and is there any discussion from council.  

No discussion. 

Wylie said any discussion from the public. Questions or discussion?  

No discussion. 

Motion to accept the consent agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.  

Wylie said the consent agenda is approved. 

Agenda Item #9, Unfinished Business (video time mark 0:33:38): 

Wylie said Item #9 on the agenda is unfinished business. And there is none. 

Agenda Item #10, New Business (video time mark 0:33:44): 

Wylie said Item #10 is new business. 

Item #10a – Second Reading of the Historic District Ordinance Amendments (video time mark 0:33:46): 

Wylie said A, #10A is second reading of the historic district ordinance amendments. And let me get to that page. Again, all the changes in the whole amendment, I believe you said last meeting, it does not all have to be read? Or just the changes? Ryan said yes.  

Ryan said and this is really, there are no, there are just some cleanup language. The bureau was taken out and SHPO [State Historic Preservation Office], S-H-P-P-O [sic], which is an agency where we report to, was put in and under minor classes of work, which is allowed and the Moons are here and they’ve verified that SHPO, I think we brought this issue up to them, but the memorandum of administrative approval, which means a written approval of an application for time-sensitive projects that do not require a building permit for work that is appropriate and that does not adversely affect the resource and since a roof repair. So, that’s the only substantive change, which just is to try to be more user-friendly to the people that own the property, if it’s necessary. And that’s in the definitional section. Then it will also, SHPO was replaced in there under T for a bureau, under section 401, which currently exists. SHPO, again, was put in for the bureau. Section 601, number 11, for, I guess number three, puts SHPO in instead of the bureau. Paren 11 is the memorandum of administrative approval, which I just read. Repealer clause, a savings clause, and an effective date clause, which would be effective twenty days after a publication pursuant to our city charter. So again, these are not really substantive changes. They are just changes that, to bring the ordinance more into compliance, since there is no longer a bureau, but SHPO, and then to add the memorandum of administrative approval. 

Wylie said OK, when I look through it, this is probably, maybe somebody’s gonna do a better typing, but I did find, starting under when you’ve got the, this is ordinance number 118, where the whole ordinance is written out. The second page, the lettering doesn’t follow. It goes A, B, C, D, E is not in there at all. I mean, I think F is written in, and it should be E. And I think I saw that somewhere else too. I think maybe down below there. So, when somebody finally types this whole thing up, let’s see, H, I, J, K, L, I mean, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V. I guess it’s okay after that. So, somebody needs to replace that F with an E when it’s finally typed up.  

Jones said what happened is there’s someone’s put in two Bs. I see what you, I found where it, you’re looking at under the full ordinance number 118 under section 301. So, it’s A, then B, and then someone has put in another B instead of starting with C. Smith said the old B is being crossed out. Wylie said the first B is crossed out. Ryan said right. Wylie said and then there’s B, C, D, and it says F, that F had, it’s written in blue, which indicates it should have been changed. It was never put in as an E. So, at some point, somebody’s, I can assume, take out the blue, redo this whole thing. And it’s just a minor thing. It needs to be E, that’s all. 

Wylie said the other thing is, I’m glad the Moons are here. I really, I look this, I don’t understand what is meant by the memorandum of, I still never know what that means, AA. It doesn’t say, let me go, let me find out. Let’s see. Forte said M, Memorandum of Administrative Approval.  

Ryan said so, the definition’s right. Wylie said there is a definition. So, it says it means the written approval of an application for time-sensitive projects that do not require a building permit for work, that it’s appropriate, and that does not adversely affect a resource, for example, roof repairs. And then later on, it’s, unfortunately, I was not able, later on, it says that the commission will review. It said, I think it meant these memorandums, these memorandums are going to be, here it is. Let’s see, the pages are not numbered. This is 11, this is under 11. And section, it must be section 601. It’s in blue. It says, or a memorandum of administrative approval means the written approval of a permit application for time-sensitive projects that do not require a building permit for work that is appropriate and does not adversely affect a resource, for example, repairs under this subsection. Or on at least a quarterly basis, the commission shall review the certificates of appropriateness. Does that really mean certificates of appropriateness, or is it referring to the memorandums of administrative approval?  

Michael Moon said oh, that’s a separate issue. If you read the entire thing, it says, if any, issued for work by its staff, inspector, or another authority. In other words, well, to determine whether or not the delegated responsibility should be continued. So that whole statement refers to – Wylie said yeah, I got all that. Yeah, but so I was under the impression that the certificates of appropriateness were only issued by the commission. They are sometimes issued by staff, inspector, or another authority. Moon said we do not have that. That’s in the law. That is in the law. We do not have any staff. Wylie said right. Moon said so, we cannot delegate it to anyone. Wylie said so why does it say, issued by a staff inspector or another authority, if only the commission can – Moon said because this was taken right out of the law. Wylie said OK, but since that section was being changed, shouldn’t that also be changed. Moon said it could be removed. It does not mean that in the future, if, say, for example, council decided to assign someone as staff that we could delegate, for example, say, HDC [Historic District Commission] says we will delegate to this person as our staff, who is being paid by the city, to take care of things such as repair of roof, you know, repair of a fence that has fallen down. You know, you could list some things that did not need to come to the commission. You know, removal of a tree. Wylie said so, you’re saying that that could stay in, should stay there in case that happens in the future. Moon said it could stay in because in the future, it could be, that’s right. I mean, it’s not up to me. If you want to remove it, it’s fine with me – Wylie said OK – (continuing), Michael Moon said but I think it’s in there for that possibility in the future.  

Wylie said so I guess I got a little hopeful when I read that because I do have concerns about this whole memorandum of administrative approval, which you guys are aware of, because we discussed it, about the fact that it’s a violation of the Open Meetings Act that two people, or that you don’t have a publicly advertised meeting, and there’s not a quorum of people from the Historic District Commission meeting and discussing how to handle a situation. So, I was thinking that perhaps the Historic District Commission was changing things, and they were going to allow perhaps Smith, if he would be interested in it, or somebody on the commission to handle this separately, because it is still a violation of the Open Meetings Act. You guys are meeting about a decision on whether or not to approve something on a house, and it’s not an open meeting. Michael Moon said this is common language in the state law, OK. Wylie said I’m not talking about common language. I’m talking about an open meeting. Michael Moon said it is common language in state law that state agencies do this. That’s why – Wylie said state agencies do what? Michael Moon said have these documents, like a memorandum of this, or a memorandum of that, for administrative approval of different things. Wylie said I don’t have a problem with the name of it, I have a problem with meeting. Michael Moon said as I mentioned the last time. As I mentioned the last time. Now, I wrote it down. It’s under, now I forget what LARA [Michigan Licensing and Regulatory Affairs], but it’s under, it’s explained under LARA in the state code. And that’s why, when SHPO saw this, they said, well, yes, this is a common thing in the state law, that everything cannot be done in a meeting. And so – Wylie said but it is a meeting. Michael Moon said some things can be done by administrative approval.  

Michael Moon said and again, other HDCs have staff, and the staff do these things. They don’t have a meeting. The staff says, yes, this is all right, that this can be done. Wylie said but you guys are not staff. You are one, two – Michael Moon said exactly. We don’t have staff. Wylie said right, so we don’t have staff. So, staff, but people from the commission, who are supposed to be meeting – (Avery interrupted with an unintelligible comment) – (continuing), Wylie said, excuse me a sec – (interrupting Wylie), Michael Moon said the staff person could do it, but we have to have a meeting. That doesn’t make any sense. Wylie said you could very easily assign one person. You and I have discussed this. You could assign somebody like the secretary, who could have that approval. Somebody who, I think Smith doesn’t want to have that sort of approval. But we could do something else, instead of two people from the commission going off and having a meeting, which is not open to the public, and it’s not an open meeting. Michael Moon said no, we don’t have any meeting. Wylie said but you are meeting. Michael Moon said I go and look at it. Rob Hauxwell goes and looks at it. We say, yes, this is, we have an application. And the application says, we’re replacing a roof, and we’re putting on new shingles, and this is what the shingles are. So, they have documentation. And therefore, it is documented, and it’s in the file. Wylie said but I think your ordinance needs to say that, that individual members from the commission are going to go and privately observe the property, and give their opinion on it, not to say, you know, have something in here about something that doesn’t even exist. Staff, or, (to Ryan), Wylie said you have your hand on that, I got it. 

Ryan said I’ll just say, first of all, respectfully, two people on a subcommittee, two people is not a committee. A committee is, a public meeting is, when there’s a quorum, there would have to be three people from the HDC, or four. Wylie said three people. Ryan said so, there’s two. But this does not require a decision that involves the city, because it doesn’t require a permit. All this is, is it’s trying to help the owner in an extremist situation that needs a quick opinion, whether or not they need to go to the commission or not, and if they can get relief without going to a committee meeting. And if there’s no permit involved, then the city’s not involved. It’s just the fact that, no, you can do this, it’s not gonna affect the resource. The city’s not involved in that. Wylie said well, that is the city. The city commissioners are doing it. Ryan said yeah, but that’s a subcommittee. (Nancy Moon raised her hand.) (To Nancy Moon), Wylie said you’ve got people ahead of you. Ryan said yeah, the subcommittee, which does not involve the quorum decision for an open meeting act. And this is something that’s supposed to try to help and not hinder. Wylie said I’m 100% behind helping them, and I still wish it would be done in a different way, because it honestly, it does sound to me like a meeting. It’s brought up at meetings. You’re taking two of the commissioners that are doing it. There’s no mention of this in your ordinance about how this takes place, other than having, now I can’t find this, I turned to another page, having a staff member or one of the officers do it, not this, I mean, to me, they’re meeting.  

(To Avery), Wylie said you had something to say. Avery said well, not really. I think Ryan addressed it. Wylie said OK. Avery said I mean, you wanna argue the law, this isn’t a good venue to do that. That’s all. Wylie said OK. I mean, Ryan flipped it over. It’s part of the state code and laws. I would hope that they would know what the Open Meetings Act entails, so I wouldn’t think that the state would draft regulations that would be in violation of the Open Meetings Act. Wylie said OK. I guess, as much as anything, I wish that you guys would make your memorandum of appropriateness be one person going and taking a look, and that’s what, I said you should do it. Avery said what’s the difference, if it’s one or two people. Wylie said because when you have two people, it sounds like you’re secretly meeting someplace, and you don’t understand. Avery said well, see, that’s an issue that you have. I don’t understand it. I mean, I’ll just leave it at that. 

Wylie said OK. 

(To Nancy Moon), Wylie said you had your hand up.  

Nancy Moon said I think the main thing is trying to document when somebody puts on a new roof or does something to the house so that the next homeowner knows what’s been done. And we’re all gonna put on a new roof, but if it’s pouring down rain and your roof leaks and the meeting was two days ago, I really don’t think you wanna wait. Wylie said well, of course not. Moon said and I can tell you, right? Today. (To Nancy Moon), Wylie said honestly, that’s not, as I said before, that’s not the issue. I agree with you on that. It should be handled as quickly as possible. And honestly, I wish I could just go to city hall and say, this is what I’m gonna do, and then city hall says, it’s a roof, go ahead. It’s a shingle, go ahead. It’s whatever. Nancy Moon said but I’m just saying, today, you know, we didn’t get home until about six o’clock because of unfortunate medical appointments for me, but there were two. One was something that came from Smith that needed a special meeting. One was a phone call from a neighbor who needed a special meeting because their home is going to be part of SCAMP. And so here you are. And, you know, we can’t just ask people that are volunteering to constantly hold a special meeting all the time.  

(To Nancy Moon), again, that’s not, honestly, that’s not the issue. It’s the method of doing it that I said. Avery said what’s the issue. I’m trying to figure it out. Wylie said I said the issue has been, I’ve always been under the impression that when these two people were going off together, I didn’t realize they were meeting, going on their own. But I was always under the impression these two people were going there and discussing and trying to decide what to do. Then they come back to the HDC and talk about what they’re going to do. And to me, that sounded like having a little subset of the Historic District Commission going off and not meeting in public and not, and again, I don’t care if you do it one person, just be open about it. Let people know what’s going on. But thank you, I guess you clarified it for me. 

Wylie said any other questions on this? We’ve got a res, do we have to read anything else on the resolution? Ryan said no, no, thank you.  

(Wylie read the resolution.)  

Wylie said and I need somebody to resolve and then a second.  

Motion by Quisenberry; second Jones. 

Wylie said and any discussion from council.  

No discussion. 

Wylie said from the public. 

No discussion.  

Wylie said and we need a roll call. Smith said OK.  

Forte, Jones, Quisenberry, Wylie, Casey, and Avery voted yes. 

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Ryan said thank you. Wylie said thank you. And now I have lost my – oh, here, I got it. 

Item #10b – Resolution: Adoption of the Historic District Ordinance Amendments (video time mark 0:49:00): 

• • Resolution – Adoption of the Amended Historic District Ordinance No. 118 (page 20/36 of the council packet) 
  • Historic District Ordinance (21/36 of the council packet) 
  • Historic District Ordinance (25/36 of the council packet) 

Wylie said new business, B, resolution, adoption of the historic district ordinance amendments. Avery said we just did. Wylie said oh, that’s what I just did. That was whole thing. Okay, resolut – then we are #10C, resolution, application of the Congressionally Directed Spending program through the US representative, Lisa McLain. I’m sorry. 

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon. 

Nancy Moon said the city council had asked that I send out letters to the nineteen people that now it is applied to. I just want to say, once the signatures are on the document, it’s sent to Oakland County Register of Deeds and the 20-day clock starts. I will send out those letters. I’ve been holding them because SHPO’s adamant, until the end of that 20 days, they will not accept them. And so, we have to, you know. Wylie said what is it SHPO won’t accept after? Nancy Moon said the applications from these nineteen people that are now approved. Michael Moon said if any of them want to take advantage of the tax credit. Nancy Moon said the state tax credit. Wylie said OK. 

Wylie said oh, has anybody in Clarkson ever applied for those? Nancy Moon said yes. Michael Moon said oh yeah. Wylie said I mean, I know Rudy’s did a lot. Nancy Moon said they have. And I’m just saying, no one has asked, but the letters have been drafted. We’re just holding, putting them in the mail until all those little things are done. So, we can say, okay, by April such and such or May 1, whatever it turns out to be, you can apply and give them the details of how to apply.  

Wylie said so, I know Forte has something. Michael Moon said and we’re hoping that some people will apply. Wylie said the ordinance change, was any of it having anything to do with changing the date of the age of the historic district or about those nineteen homes? Nancy Moon said whenever you make any change that impacts SHPO, they require you update your ordinance. That’s a state law. Wylie said OK. Nancy Moon said it’s not, it’s just one of their things. It’s like they were upset that we hadn’t changed it because of the name change back in 2012 or something. Wylie said so, even though this ordinance has absolutely nothing to do with the change in the date, they still won’t accept. OK. All right. 

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment. 

Forte said so, like, sorry, I’ll stop distracting everyone after this question. So, like, if, you know how you said, like if you wanted to see all the previous work on your house that was being done in like all the HDC applications, can, how do you do that? Nancy Moon said OK. We are, we, the library, it’s not on the library’s website, but the library actually has been paying, because it’s tax dollars, a few thousand dollars to maintain what was called the walking tour that the Bassinger or Basinger? Ryan and Wylie said Basinger. Basinger. (Continuing), Nancy Moon said Basinger family did years ago, back around 1980, I think. It crashed because the platform would no longer support it. Well, we’ve got a new platform and we’ve been slowly testing it. It’s supposed to be ready the 1st of February, but you know, software is always behind schedule. So, I’m hoping to have it by the end of March because I’ve been hand testing it with one hand and Julie Meredith [Director, Clarkston Independence District Library] has been helping. Once that is done, the library, because they have full-time technical support, it’s available whenever the library is open. I mean, you can call it blah, blah, blah, my computer won’t work, what do I do? If they’re not busy, they will start uploading everything from the study committee. Everything prior to 2023, I believe, from the HDC that we found is already uploaded and then they’ll upload ’23 and ’24. Michael Moon said that’s certificates of appropriateness [COA] or notices to proceed or denials. All of those that are filed away with the city in here will be available so that new homeowners can look and see, OK, they had a COA to do this, and this date, what was the date? (To Forte), Wylie said did that answer what you were looking for? Forte said yes. Wylie said OK, thank you. Michael Moon said including MoAAs [Memorandum of Administrative Authority] like the roofing.  

Wylie said OK, anybody else, questions or comments?  

No comments. 

Nancy Moon said I’ll let everybody know as soon as I’ve started shipping the data over. I’m just waiting. 

Item #10c – Resolution: Application to the Congressionally Directed Spending Program Through U.S. Representative Lisa McClain (video time mark 0:50:45): 

• • Resolution – Application to the Congressionally Directed Spending Program (page 36/36 of the council packet) 

Wylie said OK, so we’ve got #10C, resolution, application to the Congressionally Directed Spending Program through U.S. Representative Lisa McClain. 

(Wylie read the resolution.) 

(To Smith), Wylie said normally we want to have a first and a second, resolution, but I know you’ve got some things you wanna say on this first. 

Smith said well, this very last sentence is probably the most key component of why I wanted council to be aware of this, that if we, let’s say magically, we are granted $1.5 million, we would have to do 20% of that. What is that, I guess? Quisenberry and other council members said $300,000. Smith said $300,000. So, if this was approved, we have to come up with $300,000. Now we have, we know earlier this year we received $100,000 roughly, $100,000 back from Independence Township for our overbilling on police. So, we have $100,000. I guess my recommendation is that we don’t use that right away. We wait and see if we have a chance of getting this. We just sit on that and not use those funds, and nothing’s been used so far. And then over the next two years, if it looks like we are going to get this, then through parking money, we would have to start putting some money, more money aside in the hopes that by 2027, we have not the $100,000 we have today, but $300,000. I know that’s a big number, and so applying for a grant is not something I have come to council before. If it’s just, it’s all free money. 

Smith said I just, so you know that I apply for grants other times, and 90% of the time, 95% of the time, I don’t get them. But I do that if they’re 100% free. There’s no matching requirement. This grant is a match requirement, and so that’s why I’m bringing this to you tonight, because you might say, that’s an awful big risk. Now, you know, you’ll recall that we were awarded a DNR [Department of Natural Resources] grant for the Friends of Depot Park a couple years ago, three, four years ago, maybe, and for $50,000, and they required a match. It was a 50-50 match. So, we were prepared to do that, but the cash flow was such that it wasn’t gonna work out. So, we had to back away from that, and that’s always an option here. It’s not something you wanna do, because it kind of puts you in a bad light for future grants, but push comes to shove if you had to say in 2027 we don’t have the 20% of $1.5 million, we always have the option of just saying thanks, but no thanks, we’re gonna have to back away from this, or we can only accept, let’s say, $1 million, because we have $200,000 saved. We could accept a grant for $1 million, but not $1.5. That would be an option 

Smith said but this is the main reason. I’ve already kind of explained what CDS [Congressionally Directed Spending Program] is. It’s a new concept for me. Even though I’ve been in this job for over eight years, I’m really just learning about this now. And yet, the bigger cities, the bigger municipalities have been taking advantage of this for years, but it didn’t filter down to our level. So, it’s time now, I think, to start getting involved in this part of the process with our federal government. No guarantee it’s gonna make the cuts for next year or the year after. I don’t know what’s going on in Washington any more than you do. But it is something that I think we need to keep our eye on. So, what I’m asking you to do, and I’ve got a lot of legwork between now and April 4th, which is a week from Friday, to get everything put together.  

Smith said it’s not a crazy complicated grant application. Actually, the one I did for placemaking a couple years ago up on Main Street was a more complicated application. This application is pretty simple, but one thing I need to do that is required is you have to have a budget, and you have to have quotes that align with that budget. I’m meeting with this engineering firm that I spoke of earlier that I met at CapCon. I’ve known this individual for probably five or six years. He’s, by the way, vying for our city engineering business. He’s been very patient, returning, checking on me every six months or so. He would like, of course, our ongoing business if we were to re-quote that from HRC [Hubbell Roth & Clark, the city’s contract engineers]. But he’s willing to work with me, and he said he would send over one of his engineers to meet with me tomorrow. Tomorrow morning I’m gonna be meeting with him, and we’re gonna walk the downtown streets, and he’s going to put together an estimate of what it would cost, everything I’m talking about. 

Smith said and again, it’s the things that I mentioned earlier. Replacing all the sidewalks, making them ADA compliant. All, 100% of the concrete sidewalks downtown would be taken out, and they would be made flat. Right now, they slope up. They’d have to be flattened out. Secondly, the paver driveways, that they’re potholed and a nightmare to walk on. Those would all be taken out with new concrete driveways replacing them. Thirdly, we would talk about bump-outs, if we can do that. Of course, this would require, now I’m embarking on MDOT’s roadway, so I’d have to have MDOT’s approval, but with my new contact, my new friend, Mike Harris, I’m hoping he’ll help me make some contacts at MDOT, and maybe we can get those bump-outs, even though MDOT’s probably not going to be redoing Main Street for another five to seven years, I’m guessing. So, this would be an interim, that they don’t like doing interim projects, but that would be my suggestion, is we get Mike Harris’s help to do the bump-outs. And at the same time, we could look at pedestrian crossing signals, anything we can do electronically while we’re tearing up the sidewalks. We have open trenches that could be put in for drainage or electrical lines or what have you, so that we could do all this and fix it right the first time.  

Forte said and irrigation for the street trees. Smith said irrigation for the street trees. Forte said because we keep killing the street trees. Smith said we’re losing the street trees, yes. So, it would be an opportunity, that would be a very low cost, to run some conduit or some piping in the ground while the sidewalk is opened up.  

Smith said so, he’s going to prepare this estimate for me. That’s going to handle the estimate side.  

Smith said the other big thing I need there, critical he says, are letters of support. So, I embarked on Chat GPT today, and I’m exploring that. It will write letters for you. Forte said yes. Smith said so, I’m told that you have to write the letters for these civic leaders. So, if I asked a restaurant owner, if I asked the head of the Chamber, if I asked the head of Rotary or Optimists or whatever, I would like you to write a letter of support that you think improved walkability, improved ADA compliance, improved driveways, improved pedestrian safety, ala the bump outs. Would these help your business? Would these help the Chamber? Would these help whatever organization you’re involved in? So, I would write, draft a letter for them, and send it to them and ask that they put it on their letterhead, that kind of thing.  

Smith recognized Forte for a comment. 

Forte said part of our walkability study thing, we brought up the radius of the schools. So, I would do at least one stakeholder from, like, I don’t know. Smith said yes. Wylie said Clarkson El’s the closest. Forte said yeah. Wylie said Clarkson El’s probably the closest. Forte said but even like the junior high and Renaissance all count within our radius. Wylie said that’s true. Smith said so, Sean Ryan [superintendent, Clarkston Community Schools], I think, would be perfect for that. Forte said yeah, so you could get business education. Like, there’s a lot. Sorry, continue.  

Smith said no, that’s, so I’ve started on that, trying to get this, because I think that’s the longest lead item in this kind of project, is to get those letters out so I can start getting those back, because I have to have those in my possession when I submit on April 4th.  

Smith said so those are the big topics. Filling out the actual form is not that complicated. A lot of questions, but nothing terribly complicated. I think getting the application in is doable by April 4th. The likelihood of getting this is, your guess is as good as mine, and I’m up against competition. We just got, today, this afternoon, we got a request for a project that’s looking to do some other infrastructure kind of work, and they asked me for a letter of support for their program. So, it’s interesting. I’m starting to see who are my competition. Who is gonna be Lisa McClain’s competition if she accepts this and goes into the House of Representatives meeting where they weigh out all these various projects? You might have somebody from Missouri or Utah that has a project that is super important that would just blow everybody else out of the water.  

Wylie said so, each representative does not get a project. Smith said no. Wylie said OK. Smith said no, does not get so much money or so much project. It’s my understanding it’s a free for all. Wylie said OK. Smith said but each representative is gonna make a case for their home district – Wylie said gotcha – (continuing), Smith said and say this is really important. McClain would agree that this, having a city as frequented as Clarkston is, that it’s important to have walkability and safety in our community. So, I don’t think she’s gonna object to it. It’s just a question, do we get drowned out by other projects?  

Wylie said do we know if any communities in the area have ever gotten one of these grants? Smith said not small communities, but bigger communities like Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, they have received some of these bigger cities. Wylie said OK. Smith said so, it is something that, unless you’re in there swinging, you’re not gonna hit the ball. So, we have to be playing in this arena now. Wylie said OK. Jones said closed mouths don’t get fed.  

Wylie said let’s have, if somebody on council would make a first resolve on this and then we can get a second. 

Motion by Jones; second Forte. 

Wylie said now, is there any questions or comments or anything from – (to Avery), Wylie said yeah, go ahead.  

Avery said the engineer, do we have to pay the engineer to draw this up. He’s gonna do it for us? Smith said he’s doing this for us. Avery said OK, my thought is, well, let me ask this. This is an annual deal. Every year this program exists, correct? Smith said correct. Avery said OK, this is too big, too important to try to rush it through in a week, my humble opinion. We’re talking about a major streetscape project that could be, you’re ballparking at a million, it could be a million and a half. We got everybody here kind of saying, hey, we can do this, we can do that. You’re not going to get all that done in a week. There’s no way you’re gonna, I don’t think there’s gonna be a way you’re gonna put together a, we’re in the big leagues, like you said, you gotta put in a major league presentation. You gotta have input from people. What do they want for their streets and sidewalks and all that stuff? I think trying to get it all through in one week, just to try to beat this April 4th, 2025, deadline, I’m not sure it’s a good use of your time. I’m not saying we shouldn’t try to do it for next year with the thought that you just found out about this a week or so ago. So, let’s do it right. Let’s get the right people. Let’s get Mike Harris involved. Let’s get, you know, I assume he knows Lisa McClain. Start talking to her, you gotta start warming her up to the idea that this is what we’re looking for. I think you’re just gonna spin your wheels here. I’m not even sure this money’s gonna be available based upon what we’ve been seeing happening in Washington here in the last three months.  

Smith said my understanding is that this is, the money that’s available right now to them was the 2025 program that was approved last year, and it’s locked in. Avery said oh, I understand. There’s a lot of stuff that was locked in and they’re kicking it to the curb. Smith said there are programs that have been locked in, and they’ve been pulled back. Avery said I just wanna, I think we do ourselves more good by doing it incrementally and do it the right way and put together a proper proposition. 

Smith said two comments on that. One would be a (unintelligible), (to Avery), Smith said I hear you point out, and that was my initial concern too. It’s a lot of data to get put together. Looking at the form, it’s not that complicated. Avery said so, it’s not very specific. Smith said they’re not looking for a ton of detail at this juncture. Now, between now and 2027, what this engineering engineer that I talked with at CapCon said, you would have 2026 to do your planning, and you would have to spend some money, maybe $20,000, $30,000 at that time to do your planning, getting all the ducks in a row around exactly what you wanna do. And at that point, if the money’s approved, say we are lucky to get approved, we would have to back into what we can get done for whatever dollar amount was approved. So, there may be some of that. Secondly, my other concern would be by the time we get to next year’s program, it could be entirely canceled. And what I’m told is that the current monies are there in the checkbook, ready to write the checks. Granted, we won’t get it till 2026, but I’m told the money is there. But this could all change tomorrow. Things are changing every day in Washington. So, my thought was let’s try, and if we don’t get it, what this engineer is telling me is there are people that just reapply the same thing – Avery said sure – (continuing), Smith said year after year after year, and eventually they probably get it, because they’ve been waiting their time patiently in line with basically the same project. Which I would probably do here as well. Maybe we add some more detail between now and next year. We could do it again next year. 

Avery said well, if it is critical, as you say, and I’m not here to doubt that, then I think it’s something that we have, as a council, has to start looking at, even if we have to come up with the money ourselves, if we have to sell bonds, whatever it is. If it’s critical, then we need to start thinking about that. Yeah. Right? I mean, we can’t wait. Money isn’t gonna magically grow on trees. We’re not gonna have an extra million dollars drop out of the sky, typically, to pay for these kind of things. And the only way that we do that is by – Jones said is by actually doing something. Avery said by bonds and – (To Jones), Wylie said did you have a question or comment? Jones said well, no, no, I just, I mean, like – Wylie said other than volunteering to help.  

Jones said yeah, volunteering to help. I mean, we’ve talked about parking. We’ve talked about walkability. We’ve talked about pedestrian safety. We can continue talking about it. Like, let’s actually do something about it. Like, this is an opportunity. We apply for it. If we get the money, amazing. We’ll figure out how we can do it and what we can do with it. If we don’t get it, cool. We’ll apply next year. We’ll apply to something else. But I want us to actually do something – Forte said yeah – (continuing), Jones said instead of continuing to talk about it. Forte said I agree and – (interrupting Forte), Jones said we’re all out of ideas, and we haven’t tried anything.  

Forte said and you know, like, this quote that we’re getting with this new engineering firm leads to us, A, getting a new engineering firm, B, getting a quote of what this actually really costs, even if it’s conceptual. Like, the reality is, I agree with Avery. Eventually, we need to plan for this in reality, like, because what I was thinking is, even if we have to pony up $300,000, what if someone or a bunch of people start suing the city over tripping? Like, how much is that gonna cost? You know what I mean? Like, there’s other realities that could be just as expensive, if not more, like, so, like, I agree that you’re right. We do have to plan for this. I’m thinking planning commission. How are we incorporating that into our long-range plan, like, or even the financial committee. So, I don’t know. I agree with you guys both, like, I think this might be the right step in the right direction to get these realities looked at, like.  

Jones said it’s actually an actionable step – Forte said yeah – (continuing), Jones said as opposed to continuing to talk about it and kicking it onto another agenda and waiting for someone else to solve the problem. Wylie said anything else form council? Jones said so, like, if we got it, let’s do it. Wylie said I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to step on you. Jones said no, you’re good.  

Wylie said anybody else on council, questions or comments regarding this.  

No comments. 

Wylie said public, anybody. 

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon for a comment.  

Nancy Moon said it seems that Smith has got some contacts now. Take advantage of them and fill in the application. And even if we don’t win, we’ve learned a lot about how to do it and what we can do next. And, you know, because, yeah, who knows what’s gonna be in D.C. in one year. Wylie said okay, thanks.  

Wylie said anybody else. 

No comments. 

Wylie said public. 

No comments. 

Wylie said OK, so we had a resolution by Jones and seconded by Forte. And we need a roll call. Smith said OK. 

Casey, Forte, Jones, Quisenberry, and Wylie voted yes. 

Avery voted no. 

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you. 

Wylie said before we end the meeting, are, anybody with any other questions or comments to bring up. 

Forte said yeah, what’s the next steps with the financial committee. Wylie said finance committee. Forte said yeah, finance committee. Quisenberry said budget committee. Forte said yeah. Quisenberry said we need to meet next week. Wylie said because we have – Forte said I’m banned. Quisenberry said banned. Wylie said I said she’s banned from, she can’t come to the finance committee. Quisenberry said I think we meet next week. Wylie said I think we’re gonna start looking at, we’ve been looking at big picture, we’re gonna start looking at small picture. Some more specifics. Quisenberry said we’ve kind of been focusing on those four major expenses that we have. And I think the next meeting that we kind of tentatively set up that we’re gonna start with the actual budget, the 101, the 102, the 401, and then go kind of almost like we started out last year. Forte said OK. Quisenberry said so, the budget as it exists, we’re gonna kind of go through, maybe we don’t have to do line item by line item but start along those lines and then plug in the anticipated expenses that were of those four into their respective line items to see how much we have for that then. Wylie said that’s usually Greg [Coté, city treasurer] comes with something prepared, and Coté and Smith have come with something prepared based on previous discussions.  

Wylie said anybody else.  

Wylie recognized Smith for a comment. 

Smith said we, as Quisenberry was saying, we kind of completed, I think, as much as we can without just beating a dead horse. So, we’ve completed as much as we can on the four big increases, the police, the building services – Wylie said legal services, and – Avery said staff. Quisenberry said staff. Wylie said staff, staff’s the last, yeah, staffing. Smith said so, we’ve addressed those four, and now we need to now kind of roll this in and really start what is the normal finance committee meeting and start meeting and going through all the line items, as Quisenberry said, in 101, 201, 301. Wylie said we started a lot earlier than usual. I mean, usually we’re not meeting until about now. Smith said about now would be the normal time to start. Wylie said well, but we had those other things, those, the four big areas that we spent a lot of time talking about. Smith said we’re right on schedule. 

Wylie said anybody.  

No comments. 

Agenda Item #11, Adjourn Meeting (video time mark 1:17:15): 

Wylie said OK, I need a motion to adjourn the meeting. 

Motion by Jones; second Forte. 

Wylie said and any discussion. 

No discussion. 

Motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote. 

Wylie said and we are adjourned at 8:17. Thank you, everybody 

Resources: 

• • Link to video recording here
  • 03-24-2025 city council packet