Month: September 2021

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September 27, 2021, City Council Meeting

Note: links to the video recording and the council packet can be found at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted between brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda item #1, Call to Order:

There was no call to order on the video recording. The video started with the Pledge of Allegiance.

Agenda item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:00):

Pledge said.

Agenda item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:14):

Haven, Avery, Bonser, Casey, Luginski, and Wylie were present.

Agenda item #4, Motion: Approval of Agenda (Video time mark 0:00:26):

Motion to approve the agenda by Wylie; second Luginski.

Wylie asked why the HDC (Historic District Commission) portion was removed. Jonathan Smith (city manager) said that they couldn’t get a quorum. Only two of the members could attend. It was going to be a joint meeting, so you need a quorum for both the council and the HDC. Wylie asked if they were going to be in the closed portion, and Smith said yes. Wylie asked if they had to agree to whatever was said then, and Smith said that they are part of the discussion. They make their own decision and have to have their own motion. Tom Ryan (city attorney) had prepared one, but it sounds like that is going to have to be postponed at this point. Wylie said that she was confused because she thought that council would OK a settlement, and she assumes that it was a settlement for a lawsuit or not, but apparently, HDC also has a say in it? Ryan said that HDC is a named party defendant, so they have a right to participate. They were trying to arrange it so there was a joint meeting tonight with HDC and the council, but the word didn’t get out to them. Ryan found out today that it wasn’t posted by the HDC, we wouldn’t meet the legal time constraints relative to posting, so it couldn’t be tonight. Ryan hoped that it could be next Monday or Thursday because it doesn’t look like this week is going to work.

Chet Pardee asked if Item 9b would actually be a resolution because he didn’t see a resolution in the packet. Haven said that was a good question. Smith said it’s true that they don’t have a written resolution, but they are putting it as a resolution so it would be a verbalized one. This was a late addition. Haven said it needs a resolution because it’s monetary, and Smith agreed.

Motion to approve the agenda passed unanimously by voice vote.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:03:17):

Peg Roth:

Roth identified herself and provided her address. Roth said that during the eight years that she served on the city council, she learned some disturbing things about how the HDC conducts their business. She watched them chase three families away because of their refusal to follow the HDC’s mandates without question. It seems the HDC’s approach is that if someone does not readily agree with their opinion, the HDC digs their toes in the sand and declares war. This disbelief that someone would actually challenge them turns to anger, belligerence, and what can only be described as bullying. Every day, she looks at the property across the street from them, knowing how excited these people were about the improvements they were going to do to their property. This has been going on since May. It has been held up since then by the HDC challenging what they are doing. There was a comment by an HDC person that this amount of time is really not bad – usually, they take a lot longer than this. So, Roth said that she guessed it doesn’t really matter to anyone here or to anyone on the HDC what it has cost Chris (Moore) and his family, both in terms of emotionally and financially. It seems that the HDC considers themselves the ultimate authority, so they feel that they are entitled to act like they do. Unfortunately, the council, with the mayor’s encouragement, also believes that.

Roth said that she’s spent a lot of time in the last few weeks talking to people at many levels in our government and with many of our residents, because she believes everyone is accountable for how they conduct themselves, especially in public service. Not too long ago, Roth contacted a painter to do some work for her in the village. He told Roth that he does not accept work in the village because of the nasty experience he had with the HDC on a job. An interesting comment that Roth heard from one of our residents, having completed a project in the village – he said that the HDC is the worst, but they’re not all bad. The ZBA (Zoning Board of Appeals), the Planning Commission (PC), they’re all bad.

So, is that how we want our village to be known and portrayed? That people just have to put up with angry and insulting mannerisms? Roth finds how people are being treated by the HDC, and again, her understanding is the council is the ultimate authority. She didn’t know at what point the HDC has risen above. As Roth remembers, the HDC came to the council when there were issues or confusion. Holding someone up on a management property is just ridiculous. Five months that he has had no answer from the HDC. Roth said that she would also like to ask that an agenda item be added to the meeting when Ryan would be available because she would like some discussion on the cost involved that has been incurred with the HDC and all the different lawsuits, attorney fees. She thinks that it’s time for the residents, and she would like to know as well.

Wylie asked if Roth would specify what property she’s speaking of for the record. Roth said Chris Moore, and she didn’t know the address. Wylie said that she assumed it was Moore. Moore said it is 61 South Holcomb.

Chris Moore:

Moore identified himself and provided his address. Moore said that he is there today as a concerned citizen, and he wanted to tell them his story. Moore grew up in the village with his family for eleven years and heard rumors of the council and HDC conduct. Not until recently did Moore and his family experience this. Over the last five months, the HDC has unanimously approved false documents, for at least the past five months. They stated that landscaping and planting are not under the purview of the HDC. What they omitted was their statement was that fencing for houses was under the purview of the PC. Another time, there was an entire paragraph added, which Moore cited in emails. Another time, they omitted two critical decisions about Moore’s rehabilitation project. One was that they actually approved their (unintelligible) aesthetics. They approved it but they omitted it from their minutes. Another was that they gave Moore a conditional certificate of appropriateness – eliminated from the minutes. Another time, they discussed Moore’s property without it even being on the agenda; hence, Moore and his wife were not even invited to that meeting.

There are also public comments omitted. Moore went to a meeting and asked what the process was to amend inaccurate minutes from the past that he listed. They stated that there is not a process. Nothing has been done with that.

Moore read an email during the public comments portion of the meeting. It’s an email that Moore sent to Jim Meloche and Mayor Haven that delineated Moore’s concerns about HDC falsification of documents that was completely eliminated from the record. All of those comments were eliminated. The only public comment that they kept in the record was that stated by Nancy Moon.

In a different meeting, a certificate of appropriateness was issued for the front portion of their gate and another conditional certificate of appropriateness was given for the fence pending administrative approval. To this day, Moore still hasn’t seen those documents.

There are more issues. Consider the ZBA application. Moore submitted a ZBA application and subsequently, he noticed on the HDC agenda that they wanted to review his application. HDC reviewing ZBA. Moore went to the meeting and asked Meloche why he received the ZBA application. He said he’s on an email list. Moore found that interesting, because HDC doesn’t get involved with ZBA applications. After that, Moore called Scott Meyland, Chair of the ZBA, and he hasn’t even received Moore’s application. So why is HDC’s chair, Jim Meloche, receiving ZBA applications and the chair of the ZBA hasn’t received them at all? It doesn’t make sense to Moore.

Moore said that he knows that this is a lot of information, and he asked the council to please bear with him.

On June 30th, the terms of both Meloche and (Michael) Moon both expired without reappointment. Moore looked through the city council minutes and couldn’t find anything regarding their reappointment to their positions so as far as Moore is concerned, they are still out of term.

In the midst of all of this, Moore sat down with Mayor Haven and his wife and had a large discussion. They talked for about two hours regarding these falsified documents and the conduct of the HDC. They talked about it. Moore gave him a folder. The folder contained HDC minutes demonstrating additions of information not stated during meetings, deliberate omissions of critical information. Moore also gave Haven a list of HDC duties, goals, and responsibilities documented with annotations delineating how the commissioners violated countless duties, goals, and responsibilities. Haven told Moore to take it up with Meloche, so he did. Nothing has happened.

This all kind of peaked last week when Haven, Smith, PC Chair Rich Little, and Meloche all came to Moore’s house for a meeting. OK, apparently, we are going to solve this. Team. So we talked about setbacks, and we talked about the PC, ordinance, and averaging setbacks, and the fences (unintelligible). Ultimately, this peaked with a pretty big confrontation. Meloche ultimately stated that the fence was going to be torn down and removed, and he was going to have the building permit shut down (unintelligible). He went to the building department and was denied the stop work order. This doesn’t sit well with Moore, and it shouldn’t with council. And now that council, as Moore’s representative, and Moore is their constituent, these are large concerns of Moore’s and they should be for the council as well.

Moore said that his request was kind of simple. One, investigate all of the misconduct that Moore has reviewed here for all of the individuals involved. If the council wants details about these specific minutes, time marks on recordings, Moore has it all; Moore has everything detailed. Two, cease all HDC meetings and actions until proper structure, bylaws, duties, roles, policies, procedures are in place. If that doesn’t happen, past behavior predicts future behavior, and it will continue. Three, protect your constituents in your community from continued harassment by this misconduct.

Avery said that Moore got up there and said that the city council was acting improperly, and he didn’t hear anything from Moore that pointed out any particular conduct by the city council that they acted improperly. Moore said he must have misspoken. He didn’t recall that. Avery asked if he misheard it. Wylie said that she heard it also. Moore said that was a mistake.

Wylie said she would like to see what Moore just said in writing. Moore said absolutely. Avery said that he wanted to hear what Moore had to say. Moore said that the very detailed document is much longer, and it would take much more time, so Moore tried to limit it. Wylie said that he could start with that. Moore said OK. Moore asked if there were any other questions, and there were none.

Chet Pardee:

Pardee said that part of his public comments was that he spent about forty minutes with Meloche on the phone this afternoon. At 5:00, Meloche called Pardee.

Pardee gave his name and said he lives on Main Street. He said that his comments have been provided to council previously.

Tom Stone, a respected, long-time Clarkston village resident, provided a letter to the editor published in last week’s Clarkston News, shown below. Tom asked ten questions critical to the village continuing as a city, questions which city officials have consistently refused to answer. Similar to council’s response with the eighteen documents, city officials chose to not act soon enough, and the Michigan Supreme Court ruled against the city. Similar to the city having insufficient funds to repair its infrastructure, council ignores its responsibility to respond in any way as Tom Stone asks: “What is happening in the Village?”

HDC continues to incur legal costs as they focus on actions which hurt the reputation of Clarkston, rather than help it. Choosing not to focus on preservation and restoration, the HDC continues to focus on porch railings, fences, and rocks.

Pardee invited city officials to his front yard to view the blight and destruction by neglect in progress on Main Street – as they met in Moore’s front yard last week. More than two years have passed since code enforcement called the North Main situation “destruction by neglect” and HDC called it “blight.”

The mayor needs to clarify what he intended with his remark regarding West Bloomfield in the 9/14/21 HDC meeting. What did he mean?  Does he need to apologize or just clarify?

[Pardee included the following in the public comments that were sent to the city council]

LETTER TO THE EDITOR-Clarkston News 9/22/21

What is Happening in the Village?

Why are people moving out of Clarkston?

Is it for personal reasons? Or is it because of what is happening (or not happening) with city government?

Why hasn’t there been continuing repair of the sidewalks and planting of trees?

Why aren’t appointments and election to city offices being handled appropriately?

Why are recordings of city meetings difficult to hear and some not posted at all?

Why isn’t the city following Michigan budget laws in its operation?

Why is so much attention being paid to renovation of “historic” homes and so little paid to “run down” residences?

Why is there such a delay in, or lack of coherent response to, requests for service or transparency?

Why are we, the residents of the City of the Village of Clarkston, not being led openly, legally, and coherently?

Why do we have to write letters such as these in an effort to get a response – let alone action?

Tom Stone

Haven said that he made no comment in public at an HDC meeting.

Wylie asked Pardee to clarify what the comment was, did he recall what the comment was? Pardee said that the reference that he heard was that we are becoming like West Bloomfield. Roth said that Haven said it looks like West Bloomfield. Roth’s husband asked Haven what he meant, and Haven said “Bob, you know what I mean, it looks like West Bloomfield.”

Roth asked if there were any recordings of these meetings, comments like that? Haven said that it was part of a conversation, and it had nothing to do with two people who were attending the meeting. Roth said that it was not a conversation that her husband was intending – (interrupting Roth), Haven said that Roth wasn’t there. Roth said that was correct, she was not there. Haven said that she doesn’t know. (Unintelligible) was there, Haven knows that, they were sitting in the back row, OK, and Haven had a conversation between the two of them, OK? It had nothing to do with the meeting, OK, so Haven doesn’t comment about that, that’s irrelevant to the meeting’s proceedings.

No other public comments.

Agenda Item #6, FYI, Rotary Annual Beer, Wine & Spirits at Bordines Nursery (Video time mark 0:16:35)

    • Save the Date Flyer (page 3/25 of the council packet)
    • Rotary Club of Clarkston Upcoming Community Service Projects (page 4/25 of the council packet)

Haven said that this is a notice of the October 28, 2021 Clarkston Bordines Nursery Rotary Club annual beer, wine, and spirits tasting. It’s on October 28th from 6:30 to 8:30, and in the packet as well there is an attachment of various activities that the Rotary continually performs for the benefit of our village and their request for some assistance. People who are interested can contact them simply through clarkstonrotary.org, that’s about the best way to do that, and it’s easily memorable. That’s our only point of public information under Item 6 tonight.

Agenda Item #7, City Manager Report (Video time mark 0:17:34; page 5/25 of the council packet):

Haven said that Smith abbreviated the city manager’s report. Haven said that they went to the MML (Michigan Municipal League) conference together and asked if Smith had anything to add.

Smith said that Haven and Smith attended the MML’s annual conference last week. This time it was in Grand Rapids. These events are always very informative. They bring in a lot of external speakers to update us on the status of things going on in municipal cities, villages, and townships across the state.

Smith said there was a lot of information about the American Rescue Plan (ARP) and the funds that they will be receiving. It’s taken a while to get these funds. Smith was told that in the event that we were asked, and they were asked, when the funds will hit our bank account, so there is a total of $96,000 in ARP funds the city will be receiving in two tranches of about $48,000. The first tranche should be hitting this week, if it hasn’t already. Smith hasn’t talked with Greg (Coté, Treasurer), so he doesn’t know if it’s actually hit our account yet.

A lot of the discussion in the event, and probably one of the most important things to share with you, is the importance on taking some time to make the right decision on how to use these funds and also to utilize other funds that have become available and try to maybe double and triple your money if you can get matching grants from other organizations. At the same time, the federal government was giving funds to municipalities, they’ve given it to counties, townships, and to the State of Michigan itself, they were also giving it to nonprofits and other organizations that in turn give out grants. So, one of the key messages that came out of the session was don’t be so quick to spend your money because you might find that there’s a grant for something that you want to do. Take advantage of those grants, so more to come on that. They will be bringing forward to the council for decision some other possible grants that we could use to expand our monies. The good news is we have time, we don’t have to spend this money this year, in fact Smith believes that they don’t require you to spend the money until the end of 2024. So, there’s plenty of time to try to kind of figure out how best to use these funds in the most appropriate fashion.

Haven asked if we were at $96,000 and change at this point. Smith agreed. Haven asked if it were over a two-year period. Smith agreed and said that there were two tranches of about $48,000.

Smith said that was a key message that they learned. Another one that both Smith and Haven really liked was called owning the narrative, and this is the narrative of what the city wants to project itself as. You’ll need to establish a vision statement, a mission statement, and have goals and objectives. And then putting this forward in the narrative, whatever that narrative is, whether it’s a website, whether it’s communication means, it all needs to be tied back to this narrative. So, that was a really interesting discussion, a highly paid specialist in this, a consultant, did a very good presentation on this, so that was really of interest.

Luginski asked Smith how that differs from what the Master Plan says. The Master Plan has a mission statement, it talks about what we want to be, how we want to get there. Luginski isn’t saying that’s a bad idea, he’s just trying to understand the difference. Smith said they may overlap quite a bit, but this overall, what the city’s mission is to help our residents, to be supportive of our residents. A Master Plan may be a little bit more geared toward zoning, and this is just a general statement about what do we want to do as a city. We want to be supportive, we want to obviously protect our residents from physical danger, we want our residents to be happy here. So, we need to think about that, and there may be a lot of overlaps to the Master Plan vision statement, but this they felt should stand on its own. Once you have that, all the communication, all the narratives afterwards, would follow in suit and be in sync with that. Smith didn’t think that’s something that has been done here before, so it really kind of struck a chord with him. As they know, Smith is trying to do more communication, but this is going to another level, and Smith really found it interesting.

One of the last presentations that Smith went to on Thursday was about trust and belonging and really the whole message of the event was about trust and belonging, inclusivity, and how you include everybody. This last event that Smith went to was very, very interesting. He won’t get into the details of it, but it was all about bringing people in, making sure everybody’s included, not only in your decision-making, but in your staffing, in your council, in your committees. It really was a very strong and powerful message. Roth asked Smith if he thought that would apply to his community then as well, and Smith agreed.

Smith said in a nutshell, that was the MML conference last week. There is a winter conference, but the fall conference is really the biggest one. Some good information came out of it.

Smith said that’s all he had for the city manager’s report.

Wylie asked if there was any word from the police and the Sheriff’s Department about the vandalism in the restroom? At the last meeting, you said they were taking the videos and getting still pictures. Smith said that the Oakland County Sheriff did come in and with their techie. They got online and were able to capture the video of the events of the people leading up to the destruction, the actual perpetrators coming out of the bathroom, and then people coming in afterwards. Obviously, we don’t have cameras in the bathroom, but just judging by the action of people outside the bathroom, you can pretty much put together what’s happened. The Oakland County Sheriff has all that video, and the stills, and they are still working on it. Smith hasn’t heard of any actual arrests or breaks in the case.

Pardee asked if the city incurred costs to participate in the MML conference and whether those costs reached a level that council needed to approve. Smith said he didn’t recall the exact cost, but it was around $400. There is a budget line, and it’s below Smith’s approval level, so they went ahead and purchased the tickets, but there is a line item for dues and conferences under city council. Smith said he can get the exact – (interrupting Smith), Pardee asked if there were additional costs incurred beside the overnight? Smith said that there was an overnight hotel cost, but believe him, they found the cheapest rate available. They did not stay at the Amway; they stayed at a much cheaper rental.

No other comments.

Agenda Item #8, Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:26:02):

    • 08-23-2021 Final Minutes (page 6/25 of the council packet)
    • 09-13-2021 Draft Minutes (page 9/25 of the council packet)
    • 09-27-2021 Treasurer’s Report (page 12/25 of the council packet)
    • 09-22-2021 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 08/31/2021 (page 13/25 of the council packet)
    • Carlisle/Wortman, August invoices (page 19/25 of the council packet)

Haven said he would accept a motion to accept the consent agenda, the combined agenda of the last two meetings’ minutes as well as the Treasurer’s report dated 9-27. [Note: The date on the Treasurer’s report was 8-27, not 9-27.]

Motion to accept the consent agenda by Avery; second by Casey.

Pardee said in the previous month’s financials, we got bolded information, and Pardee thought that actually elevated the (unintelligible). Pardee said it looks like we have omitted that in this one or his eyes have gotten a lot worse. Does someone have that responsibility to bold? Pardee thought it was great that they did that. Smith said that the Treasurer does the report, and it does appear that this is not in bold. Pardee said it was really helpful. Smith said that he will make a comment to Coté to make it in bold.

Steve McLean asked if this was approving the minutes in the consent agenda. Haven said that the consent agenda is made up of the final minutes from 8-23, the draft minutes for 9-13, the latest one and the Treasurer’s report dated 9-27. [Note: The date on the Treasurer’s report was 8-27, not 9-27.]

McLean said Avery moved to approve it but he wasn’t there. How does he know that the minutes are accurate? Avery jokingly said that Wylie would tell him if they weren’t, that’s why. He said that he did it so that they could discuss it. Haven said Robert’s Rules.

No further discussion.

Motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed unanimously by voice vote.

Agenda Item #9, Old Business:

Item 9a – Discussion: Election Update (Video time mark 0:28:07)

    • Sample Ballot (page 22/25 of the council packet)

Haven asked Clerk Jennifer Speagle to speak on this item.

Speagle said that applications for absentee ballots have gone out. As of today, there are a total of 797 voters, she sent out 326 absentee ballot applications, she has received 65 applications back, and all 65 ballots have been sent.

She said that she would go over it as she did last year. There is a sample ballot, which is on the screen. That will be in a secrecy sleeve. She held up a document that she said was the return envelope that must be signed in order for them to take it back. Speagle held up a document and said you will get all of this in an envelope that looks like this. You throw this envelope away, fill out the ballot, sign it, put it in here, and send it back to her.

As of right now, the only write-ins that they have are Laura Rodgers and Christopher Moore.

Wylie asked when the absentee ballot applications are due, and Speagle asked if she meant to ask about applications. Wylie asked if she was saying it right, Speagle is sending out ballots. Speagle said that she sent out the applications already. Wylie asked so when are – (interrupting Wylie), Speagle said she can take the ballots up until the day of the election. Wylie asked when the applications are due back to Speagle. Speagle said that they are due back to her the week before for the ballots to be mailed out. Wylie said to get them on time. Speagle said she will be open on Saturday, the 30th from 8:00 to 4:00 and she can do any walk-ins during that time too.

Smith asked Speagle to say again when the deadline for write-ins was. Speagle said that the deadline for write-ins is October 22nd, so the write-in candidate forms have to be filled out completely, and they have to be notarized or she can’t accept them.

Haven asked Speagle if she was posting on the board outside? Speagle said she was. The absentee ballot is posted outside, all the pertinent dates are posted outside, and Speagle will keep an updated list of all the write-ins as they come in.

Item 9b – Resolution: Tree Committee Proposal (Video time mark 0:30:47)

    • Tree Proposal (page 23/25 of the council packet)
    • Resolution – Replacement Trees on Main Street (page 25/25 of the council packet)

Haven said that there is a resolution relative to a tree committee report. He asked if Amanda [Wakefield] was going to lead them through this one.

Wakefield introduced herself. She said that she’s a village resident and is working with the tree committee. At the last meeting, they talked about planting new trees in the village, and they decided to focus on six trees for downtown on the main strip. They had a preliminary budget, but since then, she talked to Wiegand’s and got an actual cost. She included that in the pdf as well as the notes from Wiegand’s specifically. Haven asked if this was in the packet, and Luginski said yes. Wakefield said that the total is $3,726. This includes installation as well as a five-year warranty for all the trees planted. They can also see the pictures from the nursery of the specific trees. In the past, the tree company has gone out and tagged the trees specifically and they would do that in this case as well. All the trees that are shown might not be the specific ones because they will look for any imperfections on site (unintelligible).

Luginski asked if that’s the general size of what the tree would be. Wakefield said yes. Those are the specific two-inch to three-inch caliper trees.

Roth asked where the trees were from. Wakefield said Wiegand’s.

An unidentified person asked what kinds of trees they were. Wakefield said they are gingkoes. The specific species are listed in the pictures. We’ve got presidential gold and magyar.

Wylie asked where they would be installed, and Wakefield said specifically downtown. There are three east of the Union and three west of the Union. She said that the pdf is an exhibit from the last meeting. Luginski asked if she meant on Main Street, north and south, and Wakefield said she did. Wylie said that some will be on the east side, some of the west side, and they are all north of the Union. Wakefield said either side of the road and north and south. Avery said that there are a couple south of the Union that had died. Wylie asked on which side of the street, and Wakefield said next to the Union. Smith said that there is one right in front of the Tiera building. The gingko is a hardier tree, less susceptible to salt damage, which makes it a good streetscape tree. Wakefield said if they wanted to see it in another similar community, Fenton uses it as a street tree as well.

Wylie said that she’s in favor of using gingko, and she asked what the budget for trees is. Smith said that we have spent all of our tree budget for the year, which was $1,800. Avery asked if that was to take trees down, and Smith said that was for planting. Smith said that we haven’t spent any of our tree removal, and we have $5,000 in tree removal. Smith said to fund this $3,726.90 total, and that includes planting, delivery, and the Mykes fertilizer, Smith was going to propose that $2,666 come from the gazebo repair. We did the gazebo repair and painting earlier this year. We had a $6,000 budget and we have monies left over. That’s done. We have $2,666 remaining in that, and Smith proposed that the other $1,061 come from the $5,000 tree removal budget. Smith said that he knows that they could take the whole thing out of the tree removal budget, but there is a regular cadence of having to take trees down just about every year, so he hates to completely decimate the tree removal budget at this early juncture in the year, so that’s why he split it up, taking some money from the gazebo and some money from tree removal to pay for this. It wasn’t something that was budgeted. Smith applauds Wakefield and the tree committee’s mission, it’s very much needed, but it was not in our budget when the budget was prepared.

Wylie asked if the trees in those six locations had been removed and are gone. Smith said that some are gone, some are still there. Smith said that included in this is that the dirt in those holes will be refreshed, if there is such a thing as new dirt. We are going to put new dirt in the hole. Haven asked if it was part of the ball of the tree. Smith said it comes with the ball, but the surrounding area will be dug out. Smith thought that where he left it with Wakefield is that the DPW (Department of Public Works) team would help dig that out and bring in some fresh dirt. Wakefield said that they wouldn’t have to; it’s covered in the cost (unintelligible). Smith said he liked that even better.

Casey asked if it was because the salt had permeated. Smith said that was the thought process. Salt and other chemicals, oils, other chemicals that may have come off the roadway.

Avery asked if there was some thought to come up with a second proposal to take care of the other trees that Wakefield talked about that we probably won’t get to this budget year, but at least they can budget it for next year. Wakefield said yes, they’ve talked about doing a larger tree plan for the whole village. Haven said that Wakefield had showed them that.

Wylie said that she assumed that these were males, and Wakefield said yes. Wylie said that the females stink. Wakefield agreed. Wylie said that they drop very, very smelly fruit. Wakefield said that they are all males, and that’s normally all the nurseries (unintelligible). (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Haven said too much information.

Haven said they’ve shown how much it’s going to cost and where we’re going to get it out of our budget.

Smith said that we need a resolution.

Haven said he would entertain a motion to accept the resolution.

Wylie said that she would resolve that we spend $3,726 to purchase and put in those ginkgo trees with $2,666 coming from the gazebo repair budget and $1,061 coming from tree removal. Haven said they are gingkoes, and Wylie said that they are gingkoes. Avery said that there is ninety cents that is not accounted for, and Pardee would have caught that if Avery didn’t. Wylie said it’s amended. Haven said we are fiscally responsible now, and she is good at that too. Casey second.

Bonser asked how much that left in the tree removal fund. Smith said just under $4,000. Bonser asked how long that would last us for, and Smith said he usually figures about $1,500-$1,700 to remove one big, silver maple. That’s what they’ve been battling, these massive silver maples. When they hollow out in the middle and die from the inside out, those are the scary ones, the widow makers that they always talk about. They want to get those addressed. The other tree removal or tree trimming initiative that Smith may need to use those funds for, if they haven’t noticed, a lot of trees, especially on Main Street, are starting to get down, and there are points where you can’t see the traffic lights until you are almost underneath them. That’s something that Smith is pushing MDOT (Michigan Department of Transportation) to fix and pay for, but they haven’t done it yet, and if they don’t, we may have to step up, but Smith said that he would continue to push through MDOT to do that.

Avery said that Bonser’s question was about time. Bonser asked when that would be set next July. Smith said between now and next July. Smith said that he just did a memo to Wakefield. They put the budget together for next July in February, they start that process in February/March, so if Wakefield could just make a notation to let them know what remaining budget she would be seeking for all of the other trees, they will include that in the budget. Wakefield said OK.

Pardee asked Smith how many trees were done for the $1,800 they spent previously. Smith asked if Pardee meant removed. Pardee said that he understood that it had already been done, in this budget here, some tree planting. Smith said four trees. Pardee asked if that was for $1,800, and Smith said yes.

Haven said he would also like to know that this is a charitable contribution opportunity for people, if they would like to plant a tree, under the auspices and direction of the tree committee, they can do that for a charitable contribution on your median, your easement, right in front of your house, which will make a nice addition to your house, and you can write it off on your taxes. The city is a charitable institution. Ask your accountant how to do that, but it’s a nice way for us to get additional trees throughout the village, so think about that and do it this year so you can get it off on next year’s tax return.

Haven said there’s a motion and second to accept the resolution.

No additional discussion.

Luginski, Wylie, Bonser, Avery, Haven, and Casey voted yes.

Wylie thanked Wakefield for her hard work. Haven said it was great. Wylie said that she hoped we were getting in some good trees.

Item 9c – Discussion: Parking Revenue Update, Parking Update for July and August 2021 (Video time mark 0:42:12)

Haven said that’s the spreadsheet that they have. It looks like about $5,000 a month for July and August both, totaling about $11,019 since they restarted the paid parking at the parking lot at Washington and Main. Smith said that was correct.

Smith said that they didn’t give the council an update in July, so this is covering two months while they got this whole thing restarted. In round numbers, Smith said he targets about $1,000 a week as revenue, so $5,000 per month is on track for that. This is a combination of both parking fees and parking citations. Parking citations are something they will take a very cautious step on. They are not being very aggressive on the parking citations. They try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but if they are clearly in violation of their parking time, then they issue a ticket. Smith said that he wanted the council to know that they truly try not to harass our patrons, they try to be kind to them, if there’s a way that they can avoid citations, they will.

Haven asked who the traffic ambassadors are. Haven said there is Lisa, and he thought her last name begins with K, and Mike Cascone. They started out slowly with just Lisa, but Cascone comes online this week or next. They will be back to the same two people that they had last year. They were great (unintelligible).

Avery asked if they are finding that the folks that are getting the tickets are typically employees of the downtown businesses. He’d like to think that they are smarter than that. Smith said it’s really not employees. Employees generally park in the Depot lot. Speagle said that there are a few, and some of them set their alarm to go and pay the machine, but for the most part, it’s just patrons coming in for our downtown.

Smith said that there is an appeal process, so if someone wishes to appeal a citation, that’s their prerogative and they get appeals all the time. For some  of them, you can tell that there is really no meat to it; other times, they get some very legitimate cases where they totally understand that, and it’s a legitimate case for voiding the citation and they do that. But it has to be legitimate.

Pardee asked if Smith could explain the collection process. We pay somebody to pursue people who got tickets. Smith said it’s automatic through the system, through Passport. People will be notified that they received a citation, and it’s all done electronically because the Passport system that they subscribe to has access to the State of Michigan vehicle database. They can either email or mail it to them. Smith thought it was generally mailed to the address of the car owner. They can go online and pay it on our system on Passport. Speagle said they get a letter online if they haven’t paid in thirty days. Smith agreed. Speagle said that they get the letter mailed to them. Smith said that they can pay the citation online. Pardee said so we (unintelligible) the next number then, and that’s what’s loaded in the data. Smith agreed. (Unintelligible) for the ins and outs. Smith said it’s a pretty seamless system that works very, very nicely. We haven’t had any problems.

Item 9d – Discussion: Historic District Study Committee Update (Video time mark 0:37:01)

Haven asked if Nancy Moon was leading the charge.

Moon said that she wanted to start off with Ron Campbell. She didn’t know if everyone knew who he was. He’s in the back. He’s the principal planner and a preservation architect for Oakland County Economic Development. He is going to speak for a few minutes about the benefits of a historic district, and then Moon will (unintelligible).

Haven welcomed Campbell.

Campbell said that he wanted to remind everyone that a historic district is much more than just history. It’s about quality of life for the residents, it means business opportunities for new businesses coming in, it’s environmentally sustainable, natural resources are conserved, and it creates a unique sense of place, and that is Clarkston.

Campbell said he’s only going to talk about the letter. (He passed something out to the council.) There was a study done by the Michigan Historic Preservation Network, he thought in 2016. They studied four communities – Ann Arbor, Bay City, Grand Rapids, and Kalamazoo. They compared two neighborhoods in each of those communities. They sought one that was designated and then one that was virtually identical in terms of age – same school district, age of houses, size of houses – and you can immediately see on the back of the sheet the results of the survey. Consistently, in each of those cities, historic district property values (unintelligible) those of non-historic districts, ranging anywhere from 6%-35% more. This was conducted over a broad stretch of time. It took into account 2000, if you will recall that was the boom, it took into account 2010, which was the crash, and then on up as the recovery. Consistently, even though historic districts also fell in value, they still maintained a healthier level of property value comparable to non-historic districts.

Campbell just wanted to read that to them and answer their questions. There is a website where they can get the full report, and he will try to answer any questions.

Haven said it is interesting that the report is taken not only in good times but in bad. Campbell agreed. Haven said that delta is important. Campbell agreed. Haven said he saw a historicity or historic presence versus outside a historic district. Campbell said that there are three or four communities in Oakland County that are pursuing enlarging their historic districts. Two of the historic districts in Southfield and downtown Oxford have just been added to the designated districts.

Campbell said that he forgot to note that there are incentives, and this was recently passed by the state legislature, there are historic tax credits available to homeowners. Up to 25% of the eligible activities that you do on your home, you can deduct 25% from your state income tax. If you are in a national district, you can also include national historic district tax credits, which are 20%. A sizable investment.

Haven asked what the county’s relationship is with the state historic preservation organization. He knows that our HDC reports directly to them, SHPO (State Historic Preservation Office). Haven understands the HDC’s relationship to SHPO; he’s wondering what the county’s relationship is. Campbell said that they connect with a lot of banter back and forth and assistance where they can. They contributed to this report that was compiled. They have a close working relationship but there’s no formal (unintelligible). Haven said that’s what he was wondering about.

Haven asked if anyone had any questions. This is the guru, sort of, of historic preservation. Campbell said he didn’t know if he could live up to that.

Pardee said he was interested on the revenue side of things. He asked Campbell to explain what the impact is on our revenue that results. The McLeans buy a home and it was assessed at twice what it was before. Does that revenue literally come to the village? Campbell said part of it would, but he didn’t think all of it would because you’d be paying school tax. Haven said that the budget you’ll remember shows that, where’s are our tax dollars, where are they spent.

No additional questions. Campbell said if there are any other questions, they know where to find him. Haven said they would track him down.

Haven said that Moon wanted to talk about the work of the study committee.

Moon said she’s a person who likes to wear a mask, but you can probably understand better if she doesn’t. She gave the council a manila folder, and Haven was cheating and looking at it. Haven said he wasn’t the only one. Moon said that unfortunately, she didn’t get things to Speagle in time today to get them in the packet, and she apologized.

Moon said that she wanted to provide some background. On December 9, 2019, the City of the Village of Clarkston City Council voted to establish a local historic district study committee to update the existing historic district inventory records to reflect the historic district’s current resources.

Moon wants them to keep a few things in mind as she continues talking. The committee is not expanding the boundaries of the historic district. If you look on the website and pull up the historic map, that’s the same. They aren’t changing. The committee was appointed by the city council, and therefore they are independent of the HDC.

You might notice committee members taking photos of the structures for the survey this fall because it’s best when the photos do not include trees, with leaves, with bushes covering in front of the house, etc. They did not get everything completed by spring, so they will be out with their cameras again. Unfortunately, they can’t get to some properties unless they get on their right of way. They live kind of down a lane. So, they are going try to contact those people and get permission to walk down the lane to take their photos.

With regard to the process, the survey committee held an in-person training session with a representative of SHPO on March 9, 2020 to learn what details are needed to update the existing inventory, the inventory records, and these are what are currently residing in SHPO for our community. The committee learned that there are three forms that need to be completed in today’s world, not back in the 1970s when this was originally done. One is the architectural properties identification form, so that’s for every structure within the boundaries of that map. The second one is the cultural landscape identification form, and the third one is the architectural district identification form, which is the district as a whole.

During the summer and fall of 2020, SHPO held four additional virtual training classes. The forms are relatively new and getting a clear understanding of what details were needed has taken them a fair amount of time. They are one of the first groups trying to use their new forms. Honestly, over the four sessions, SHPO kind of changed the requirements of what they had to do. It’s been a learning process for all of them.

To give you an idea of the forms. The architectural form, there’s 176 properties within the boundaries of the historic district. The form requires basic details, such as construction date; architectural style; the roof, exterior, and foundation materials; the historic name; the historic use. They also need accurate and detailed architectural drawings with pictures, history of the structure. They would like to have old pictures if they are available, and any significance to the community, so if that structure was owned by one of the Clarks who helped start the community, then that needs to be noted in the form application. In the packet, she actually enclosed a form that they did complete, and she wanted to thank Kim Berry who helped them with all the details. This is 43 North Main, it’s five pages long. She was kind enough to do all of the research for them and help them with the pictures, which is a big help. It’s also a house that’s quite well-known in the community, so they have old pictures. And then, of course, it’s a government document so you have to identify all your references. Take a look at that. Luginski has helped them do his house. Anyone that she can find, they have two other people, Cara (Catallo?) and Carol (Eberhardt?) are on the committee. (Unintelligible) help we can get.

Moon also included the old form. You don’t see any pictures. It’s called the Lambert house. Does anybody know what the Lambert house was? Moon didn’t until she got involved. And so, this is it. Guess what? There’s only 54 structures represented by even this for the historic district right now. That’s all there is, there’s 54. And they only have 11 pictures. So that’s the state’s impression of our historic district.

So now we get to the cultural landscape. We need a boundary description, the number of acres, the aerial photo with boundaries, a detailed site map, and something called GIS shape files. Moon has no idea what they are, and if you look on the internet, it’s some software package counties and states own, so hopefully, somebody can tell us what it is.

We have three landscapes – Mill Pond, Depot Park, and Parke Lake. You may wonder why Parke Lake. That is the eastern border, so we are required to include it as well. The records at the state have one photo – Mill Pond. That’s it.

Now we get to the district as a whole. They need the total acres, the aerial photo with boundaries, complex description, the history, and why we think we’re so important. They have three street photos. That’s it. That is our representation at the state.

Now, what was decided in 2019. We were all ambitious and we thought we would be done really soon. Now we’re hoping to be done by January 2022, the first week. Something called COVID kind of caused a problem.

(Small break)

Moon said this is something that Campbell mentioned, the state historic tax credit program. Governor Whitmer, on December 20, 2020, signed into law the new state historic tax credit program. If you want reading, it’s Public Act 343 of 2020. It’s real tiny print if you look at it. Moon said she would read the key element: A property must be listed in the National Register of Historic Places, the state register of historic sites, or be in a local district, and can be either individually listed or contributing to a listed district in order to be eligible for the program.

The nice thing about this is that it’s $5 million dollars annually, and $1 million of that goes to homeowners. There’s $2 million for businesses that have expenses greater than $2 million, and $2 million for businesses that have expenses less than $2 million.

The targeted date for sending in an application is the first part of April 2022. Guess what? First come, first serve. That’s how they are going to divvy up the money. You get your name in first, you get first dibs on the money. So, that’s why January of 2022 is critical for them. They turn it in on January 2022, SHPO will give them the answer in sixty days, what they did right, what they did wrong.

They have been required to send copies of the report periodically to them to make sure that they are doing it right for one main reason – they are all amateurs. If they had been like Grand Rapids or they had been like Ann Arbor and hired a company to come in and do it, it would be different. Their committee is volunteer and all amateurs, so they have a little more restrictions than some others.

Everyone understand the schedule? This is what she needs them as a city council to do, and she’s picking on them tonight because they desperately need help. The first thing they need the council to do, and Moon wrote the resolution and it’s in their packet, they need the council to pass a resolution for the city manager, and she was sorry to pick on Smith, but someone needs to work with the Oakland County Clerk’s department. Right now, they cannot get in the door. For some homes, they don’t need it, but for others, they do. They are hoping that the council can pass a resolution giving permission to Smith to talk to them, perhaps they can get appointments to come into the Oakland County Clerk’s office and finish the reports on the houses where it’s needed. Right now, they can’t get their foot in the door, and as of now, they don’t know when they can get into the door.

The second thing that Moon needs for the committee is aerial photos. They need Mill Pond, Depot Park, Parke Lake, and the historic district, and they need those boundaries all marked. She also needs someone to tell her what GIS shape files are so they can figure out what it is they need because they don’t know.

The third thing she needs for the committee is the acreage. How much acreage is Mill Pond, Depot Park, Parke Lake, and the historic district? It seems like an easy question, but they’ve researched and researched, and they cannot find the answer.

So, that’s what she needs. What can the council do to help them? Don’t all speak at once.

An unidentified woman in the audience said that she could help with the GIS and (unintelligible). Moon asked if she was sure, because if she gives Moon her name, she will be after her every day. The woman said she can do it tonight. Moon said they could talk afterwards, because Moon didn’t know her. Moon said that takes care of number two.

Haven said as far as giving permission for Smith to help, he didn’t know why it had to be a resolution. Ryan said it didn’t need a resolution, just the sense of council. Ryan said that they should be able to get into the county building; they are letting people in. Moon said that they will let you in if you want a marriage license, but they need to get into the deeds department and that’s what they’re telling us no for. Ryan said that Smith could call over there; it’s not a big deal. They should let you in.

Avery wanted to know what they need at the Register of Deeds. Moon said that they have to know the construction date of the house. She asked Avery if he knew the construction date of his house. Avery said not exactly. Moon said OK. Avery asked if it’s on a deed, and Moon said yes, that’s where they have to go look for it. Avery said that they have the land search on the internet where you can pull down deeds, but it won’t have the information. Moon said it does not; it doesn’t go back that far. Avery agreed.

Moon said that Oakland County had been very good to work with them, they’ve had a real estate person work with them, it just does not go back far enough. Avery said that the guy in the back there [Campbell], isn’t he with Oakland County? Moon said that he is, and believe her, she’s been having him help. Avery said he must know people there. Campbell said he didn’t know if he could get Moon in, but they can help out possibly with the GIS, the acreage of the lakes, and (unintelligible). Moon said she would hit him for acreage, and she will hit him for maps, and – (interrupting Moon), Ryan said the county does aerials. Over in the executive building, right across from the county, they have aerials. (Unintelligible.) Haven said a one stop shop. Campbell said (unintelligible) but he could get her aerials. Ryan said they have aerials. Moon said she needs old and new. Campbell said OK. Haven said it was before airplanes. (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Moon said they need them for those reports and unfortunately, SHPO has nothing on that, so they are really desperate to get them, thank you.

Haven told Moon that he’d say that she has their full support and asked if anyone objected to that. (No response.) Moon should get going and do what she needed to do. Moon has been working so hard on all of this. Moon thanked Haven. Moon said that there are two other people there that have been working on it. Haven told Moon to feel their support, please.

Moon said that once they are all blessed, they will be uploaded to the library’s file system. Haven asked if it would be the second website, submitted after the walking tour that was submitted years ago. The new one. Moon said yes, the Clarkston Historical Society. Haven asked if we get into that now or is it through the library only. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Moon said that the definition of contributing is decided by the state, so they send it in and then the state will decide. Pardee asked if some portion of the 176 may not be contributing. Moon said that is correct. They do not decide that at all. She thought that they did, but they don’t, and she’s thrilled that they don’t, so it gets them out of it.

Haven said that the goal basically is every property within the district would be on the National Register of Historic Places once they are done with their work, right? Moon said yes. Haven said complete the paperwork and pictures, and what they’ve seen here is that the earlier work that was done was all that was required before to get these properties on. Moon said yes, that was all that was required. Haven said they’ve changed, and it certainly doesn’t matter really, now it’s a new requirement, and the result will be a lot nicer because of the website and so on. You can research your properties and so on. Moon said if you have any old pictures, they would like to borrow them. If they’re slides, they can take slides. Haven said they are doing stories of people and stuff, and cultural stuff. Moon said yes.

McLean asked if Moon had the forms that she could give to the families that currently live there, and they can fill out as much as they can and turn it back in? Moon asked him where he lived, and he provided Moon with his address. Pardee it was the Tower house at the corner of Miller and North Main. Moon said she knew who McLean was. Moon said that she could give McLean a form tomorrow, and McLean agreed. Haven said that idea has a lot of merit. Moon thought she may have one with her. McLean said that they have done a lot of work, and this should really be a community project. We’re all benefiting. Everybody do their part and get as much of the legwork done for them. Moon said that would be wonderful, and she will bring McLean a form tomorrow because she didn’t bring one. Moon agreed and said that they think it’s community work, and anybody that they can get to take the opportunity to take advantage of the tax credit, they can walk around the community themselves and know that there are people who can really benefit from their help, and we want to be first in line, we don’t want be number twenty-five.

The council thanked Moon.

Agenda Item #10, Adjourn (Video time mark 1:12:00):

Haven said that he would entertain a motion to adjourn.

Wylie moved, second –

Casey pointed to someone in the back, and Haven acknowledged him and said yes sir, before we adjourn

Paul Rottarr asked if he could approach. He said that he lives in Madison Court, and he wasn’t here for the beginning of the meeting, unfortunately, so the three minutes has to be with old and new business. Rottarr said that he didn’t know if they recalled a presentation back in March that Smith put on about Madison Court Apartments. Haven said that he remembered. Rottarr said that he took the photographs. There’s been a lot of updates, but nothing has been done.

Rottarr asked the council if they had time to discuss it. Haven asked Rottarr what his role was. Rottarr said he lives there; he’s a tenant. Haven said that he’s not sure that this is the place to do it, but with Smith’s help – (interrupting Haven), Rottarr said that Smith hasn’t gotten anywhere in five months with (unintelligible), or Craig Strong, he hasn’t been able to get anything done. Rottarr hasn’t had a bathroom for four-and-a-half months. He has asbestos falling from his ceiling. He has black mold in the bathroom.

Haven said yeah, thanks for coming. Haven asked Smith if he knew anything about this, there’s some actionable regulations going on around here, and Haven didn’t know why. Smith said that they have been trying to engage Strong to use all the resources he has from the building code perspective, and they have been limited in what they can do. If things aren’t happening, it’s because all the options that Smith has are closed, but Strong has some other alternatives. Strong should be there in tomorrow.

Rottarr said if he can quote Smith, in their meeting minutes, effective March 8th council meeting, Smith gave Mr. (unintelligible) the owner (unintelligible) until the 24th of March to complete these lists that Smith put a presentation on. The photographs, as they will recall, Rottarr has them because he took them and paid to have them developed. That was March 8th. Then March 24th came by. This is the violation letter; you gave him until March 24th and it says additional time will be granted if action is provided. There was nothing done. Rottarr said he didn’t know what Smith believes. It says if no action is taken, the city will pursue legal actions. March 8th. Since then, and Rottarr has gone through this, he’s talked with Strong and has been working with Strong trying to get more information on what’s it going to take to get this cleaned up. It’s within the city limits.

Rottarr said that the State of Michigan Attorney General, Oakland County Health Department, all put it back on you, the city council. Yes, code violations are part of the services. Lab reports from April showing black mold. One that Rottarr paid for in May showing asbestos. What ammunition do you need?

Rottarr said another code violation was set out May 28th citing code 108, which is what’s being enforced, correct? Smith said the International – (interrupting Smith), Rottarr read from a document and said Madison Court Apartments 3 and 4, notice of violation and order to abate. Nothing’s been done. So, they are at the standpoint with Strong again, you’re going to threaten to take somebody to court and give them citations and violations that have never been done. So, you’re either encouraging a repeat of this or tenants not wanting to stay in Clarkston because Rottarr has to move. Rottarr’s lease is up, he’s waiting for Rottarr’s lease to end, because he doesn’t care about their fines. He doesn’t care about the violations. He’s a doctor, a dentist, and a lawyer. Rottarr said he did his legwork.

Rottarr said that there’s a lot more information there. They do need to sit down with him because once it gets public, and it will, they want to be on the front side of this not the back side. Rottarr said he didn’t have time to bring it to them, he was late getting there, and he apologizes for that.

Haven said the last time they heard about this was 5-28, is that what Rottarr is saying? Rottarr said no, he talked to Strong. Haven said that Rottarr said that 5-28 was one of the property (unintelligible). Rottarr said correct, he thinks that’s the last time the council heard it.

Avery asked Ryan what their options are. Ryan said he’s sorry to hear about this, because when he heard about it in March or April or whenever it was, he got a call from the owner’s lawyer, whom he knows, Robert Kostin. He knows Bob Kostin, he’s a community guy, and Ryan said that he was glad to hear that Kostin was representing this gentleman who owns the property. Ryan said I’ve known you for a long time and you need to get this fixed, you need to get it taken care of. Kostin said he was going to go over there tomorrow and meet with the guy, a new client, he was going to talk to John(?) and we’re going to get this handled. Then Ryan understood that they were moving people out and putting them in hotels so they could do some remediation. (Rottarr shook his head.) Ryan said he’s just telling him – (interrupting Ryan), Rottarr said he’s sorry, he’s just a little ticked because see, this stuff falls from his apartment (holding a substance), this is asbestos that falls down – (interrupting Rottarr ), Avery said hold on, (interrupting Avery), Rottarr said that falls down, and he’s just – (interrupting Rottarr ), Avery said that he understood that Rottarr is frustrated – (interrupting Avery), Rottarr said, yeah, and – (interrupting Rottarr), Ryan said you’re asking, and this is the first time hearing about it, he will make a call to Mr. Kostin tomorrow and find out what’s going on. Ryan said he understands that Rottarr is angry and frustrated, he gets it, but he thought things were, he hadn’t heard a peep out of anybody since then that there was a problem because people were, there were moving like three people out, they were arguing about what hotel they were going to put them in, Ryan said they have to get them in a hotel, give them suitable lodging, fix it, and that’s what Ryan thought was happening. So, Ryan will make a call tomorrow morning and find out, a., if Kostin is still representing him, and b. what’s going on, and Ryan will talk with Strong too. Ryan said he knew nothing about this and he thought it was being handled.

Rottarr said he’s sorry he saved all of his piques for one time, he’s just (crosstalk), he thought Strong was on top of it. Ryan said that they wanted to try to get a solution, not – (interrupting Ryan), Rottarr said that’s what he’s trying to do by bringing it in front of them before it gets public and – (interrupting Rottarr ), Ryan said he had no idea and he thought this would be handled. They were moving people out, they were going to rehab the property, and Ryan thought they were on track to get that done. Rottarr said nothing has been done. Ryan said, all right, well (unintelligible crosstalk). Rottarr said that Strong threatened him a month ago, the owner, he threatened him with a fourteen day or we’re going to go to court, Rottarr has the letter that Strong sent to Mr. (unintelligible), he gave Rottarr a copy out of courtesy, because he thought too that there was progress, but nothing has been done. So, they’re working on everybody else’s but this isn’t done, and so – (interrupting Rottarr ), Haven asked if there were any other apartments – (interrupting Haven), Rottarr said there’s a ten-unit apartment complex, and he’s in apartment four. They are working on three and ten because they moved out.

Avery said so they are doing some work there. Rottarr said it has nothing to do with the mold and asbestos that’s in his apartment and in three. Three is being done and it’s been addressed, but every time they work on it, that small bag falls on the toilet in the bathroom, and he’s got standing water that has been there for months. Avery said that they should move Rottarr out. Rottarr said he’s been trying to get help and (unintelligible) won’t talk to him. Haven said that’s crazy. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Rottarr said that he’s taken enough of their time and he’s sorry for the intrusion, but he couldn’t be there at the start of business. Ryan said he was glad that Rottarr came in, he’s going to make his call tomorrow, he will report to Smith. Smith has Rottarr’s number and how to get hold of him.

Pardee said he’d like to follow along with what Rottarr said. Pardee thinks council, Ryan, and Smith are in a bit of predicament, because in order to get the problem resolved, they are going to make residents unhappy. When Smith was describing what went on in Grand Rapids, unhappy wasn’t one of the objectives that Smith wanted to achieve. It’s not usual for council to decide they’re going to make somebody unhappy. Avery said not to interrupt, but how are they making someone unhappy. Pardee said they are going to put the pressure on – (interrupting Pardee), Ryan said that he’s just going to call a lawyer and try to get him to handle it. Their lawyer told Ryan that he was going to handle it, and Ryan hasn’t heard a peep out of him since, and he trusts these guys. Maybe he doesn’t represent him anymore, but Ryan is going to call him because he said he would take care of it. Because you can’t have people living like this. Pardee said he would agree. Ryan said that’s not an issue, OK?

Pardee said going up 10,000 feet, we are reluctant as a village to use the national code to get people to do things. Pardee asked Smith if we should be using the national code. Smith said that we are citing the code, that’s what – (interrupting Smith), Pardee said on this case or in other cases. Smith said in this case. Pardee asked about 180 and 154 North Main, are those national code issues? Avery said he didn’t want to get into all that.

Haven said this is too much detail. Let’s take it after the meeting, OK. If Pardee wants to discuss and come in during the week, that’s fine, but they needed to adjourn the council meeting. This detail is – (interrupting Haven), Pardee said this also involves the HDC because there is a ping pong going on in the village in Pardee’s opinion. Haven said that’s Pardee’s (unintelligible).

An unidentified woman said that they had been removed from the agenda tonight – will they be notified when they are back on the agenda? Smith said yes. Ryan said they had consensus at some point either next Monday or next Thursday, those are probably the best days. They don’t have to say right now.

The unidentified woman asked if they would see an agenda prior. Ryan said of course. Wylie said that the last time they tried to do this, it went back and forth and back and forth. Avery and Wylie talked about Monday night, and Wylie thought that Monday night was the PC but then said that was Tuesday. Luginski said that he’s not available Monday. Ryan asked about Thursday, and Luginski said it will be tight because he will be in Grand Rapids all day for meetings. Roth said she thought that Luginski said he didn’t travel anymore. Luginski said that’s not real travel, driving to Grand Rapids. That’s not on a plane to Denver. Luginski said he didn’t know, he can’t say, he’s in a conference Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday in Grand Rapids, and Monday, there’s a dinner thing right after work. Luginski said it’s a bad week for him, it just is what it is, but he doesn’t know that he has to be there.

Avery said there is a time constraint. Ryan said if he might have to talk to the other side about putting things over, he can do that because we only have six people, and everybody should be there to discuss this. Everybody is important. Luginski said he understood. Ryan said if he can’t do it next week, he needs to know that and he can – (interrupting Ryan), Luginski said that the week after that is a council meeting. Ryan said that was true. Luginski said the next Monday. Ryan said yes, the 12th or whatever it is.

Haven asked if that was acceptable. Ryan said if that’s what it is, if they all can be there on the 12th and then the HDC can be there. Haven said that the 12th is a Tuesday. Luginski said it’s the 11th, close enough. Ryan said if that’s the way it is, then he will make that work with the other side to get an extension to push things out. (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Ryan said that’s just two weeks from today. Haven said the next council meeting – (interrupting Haven), the unidentified woman asked if they were going to confirm with the HDC and get back to us? Ryan said yes, you will hear from Mr. (unintelligible). Luginski said that someone will get back with her.

Haven said OK. Wylie asked if they could go now. Wylie said that she made the motion.

Bosner second.

Motion to adjourn by unanimous voice vote.

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