Clarkston Sunshine

Introduction:

Links to the video recording and the council packet are at the bottom of this post. Please note any errors or omissions in the comments. Anything noted in brackets was inserted by Clarkston Sunshine.

Agenda Item #1, Call to Order (Video time mark 0:00:01):

Sue Wylie said ladies and gentlemen, it’s seven o’clock and I’m going to call the meeting to order.

Agenda Item #2, Pledge of Allegiance (Video time mark 0:00:04):

Wylie said if you would all rise, we will say the Pledge of Allegiance.

(Pledge said).

Agenda Item #3, Roll Call (Video time mark 0:00:22):

Wylie said thank you, welcome everybody. Item #3 on our agenda tonight is the roll call and Jonathan Smith [city manager] is serving as clerk, so Smith, if you could take a roll call, please. Smith said OK.

Sue Wylie, Laura Rodgers, Gary Casey, Amanda Forte, Mark Lamphier, Ted Quisenberry, and Peg Roth were present.

Wylie said so we’re all here, thank you.

Agenda Item #4, Approval of Agenda – Motion (Video time mark 0:00:46):

Wylie said Item #4 is approval of the agenda, which is attached to the packet, or I’m sorry, that is, that’s the agenda’s right here. So, I need a motion and then a second to approve the agenda as submitted.

Motion by Rodgers; second Quisenberry.

Wylie said is there any discussion on council?

No discussion.

Wylie said any discussion from the public.

No discussion.

Motion to approve the agenda passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said and the agenda is approved.

Agenda Item #5, Public Comments (Video time mark 0:01:17):

[Though public comments can sometimes irritate the city council, there is value to both the council and the public in hearing them. While they can’t eliminate public comments entirely without violating the Open Meetings Act, your city council has occasionally decided not to acknowledge public comments during a city council meeting unless the person submitting the comments also appears at the meeting (in-person or electronically) to personally read them. In the past, members of the public have been cut off for exceeding the city council’s arbitrary three-minute time limit (it’s arbitrary because no time limits are required by the Open Meetings Act).

If your public comments were submitted to the council but not read, or if you tried to make public comments but your comments were cut short, please email them to clarkstonsunshine@gmail.com and I will include them in my informal meeting summaries either under public comments or under the specific agenda item that you want to speak to.]

Wylie said Item #5 is public comments.

(Wylie read the rules for public comments.)

Wylie said would anybody like to make a public comment.

Wylie recognized Chet Pardee for a comment. Wylie said I know council has received a copy of this.

Chet Pardee:

Pardee walked up to the podium and said it went by email but after noon.

Pardee introduced himself and provided his address.

Good evening. My priorities for Clarkston city officials are transparency, follow the rules, and maintain our streets and sidewalks. In the August 12 council meeting, the consent agenda was approved. I compliment Smith and Greg [Coté, treasurer] for the 11-item collaboration shown for the June 30th Elan Financial Services statement payment of $27 as part of the consent agenda. I do not recall in council discussion and approval for expenditures for attending the MMA [MML, Michigan Municipal League] conference, $1,000 for the conference and almost $900 for two nights, two people at Mission Point Resort. Tom Ryan [city attorney] can clarify if expenditures, when in the consent agenda, greater than $500 are considered approved when no specific discussion and council approval has occurred.

On another significant transparency issue, several years of city council, planning commission, and HDC [Historic District Commission] agendas, packets, and minutes, previously available on the city’s website, is now available only back to 2020. I can remember seeing 2006 in some of these packets and minutes. And so, I wonder why did the removal occur, and for what benefit, and with whose approval? And I wonder with that information not being accessible to citizens whether or not that will have an impact on additional FOIA requests.

My comments are brief, so if there are questions, I’m well under three minutes.

No questions.

Pardee said as usual, no questions.

Wylie thanked Pardee.

Wylie said anybody else have public comments?

Wylie said OK, hearing none – Roth said should we get an answer from Ryan? Wylie said I hope he’s prepared. Roth said the question is – Ryan said well, was that on the agenda on the 12th? The consent agenda? Pardee said consent agenda, yeah. Ryan said OK. Pardee said yes, there were items on the consent agenda – Ryan said OK – (continuing), Pardee said that were approved.

Ryan said and was this listed on the consent agenda, in the items for approval by council. Pardee said maybe. There was $1,000 related to the MMA [MML], $1,014, and I know that we paid in the last month or two, we paid $1,000 of dues, and then another $1,000 for the conference. Ryan said I guess I’d have to look at the, I mean, if it was approved by council, then it’s an approved expenditure. Pardee said because it was approved as the consent agenda. Ryan said sure. Roth said unfortunately.

(To Pardee), Smith said I’m not sure where you’re getting $1,000 or $900. It’s $595 and $414. Pardee said yeah, and then there’s another $444. Smith said where is the $444. Pardee said on the receipts that you sent to me about two weeks ago. So, it was $444 a night, and one night was billed on the credit card. There’s the same amount that’s due in early September when the conference occurs.

Smith said well, I’m referring to the Elan charges that came through. All the other charges that come through is approved. But what was approved in the consent agenda was $595 for the MML conference, which I’ve been going to these conferences since I started in ‘17. And then this one happens to be on Mackinac Island, so the nightly charge is more than usual. It’s not the usual $195 or something that I try to find. This is $414 a night. That’s the MML discount rate. It’s way less than the Grand Hotel, which was the other hotel where, the conference is actually held at the Grand Hotel. But I’m not staying there because the price is way too high. And you, say you reference, there are two people. That’s the way the Mission Point does their rooms. It’s a two-person room. It’s not for two people, it’s a two-person room.

Wylie said anybody on council have questions.

(To Quisenberry), Wylie said I think you said you had a question or comment. Quisenberry said I do. Smith clarified it.

(To Pardee), Quisenberry said you say MMA, but it’s actually MML, correct? Pardee said yeah, MML. Quisenberry said MML.

Quisenberry said and the other, just as a comment from me, we have line items in our budget for conferences. We have line items in our budget for dues. And I think that we also give you the discretion to use those as you see appropriately fit without coming to us every time that you need something. It’s surprising. I wouldn’t want to have to approve every $500. I don’t know if we have to, but in this instance, we did approve it. But my position is, I don’t know that we need to. I think that you know what the budget is, and if you’re going to stay within those line items and the budget, then that’s what we put you where you’re at for.

Ryan said if it’s greater than $500 it has to be approved by council. Quisenberry said OK, I didn’t know that.

(To Quisenberry), Smith said I appreciate that vote of confidence, but Ryan is right. It’s $500 unless it’s an emergency, that’s for council. But this has been talked about many, many times, and nothing has been changed, so it’s still $500. Which it was back in when, what’s his name? Lamphier said Carol [Eberhardt, former city manager]. Smith said well before Eberhardt. Wylie said oh, the name’s on the building. Art Pappas. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions or comments on this?

No comments.

Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said and nobody else in the public has a public comment.

No comments.

Agenda Item #6 – Memorandum from City Attorney Tom Ryan (Video time mark 0:08:27):

• • 08-22-2024, Memorandum from City Attorney Tom Ryan to Mayor Wylie and Members of Council, Citizens for a Sensible Historic District Commission v Catherine Ashley (page 3/69 of the council packet)
  • 08-20-2024, Notice of Dismissal (page 4/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said moving on to Item #6, memorandum from City Attorney Tom Ryan.

Ryan said if you’d like – Wylie said please – Ryan said I just want to notify council, and it was in the package, it’s not an attorney’s privilege, that the lawsuit was dismissed. And I just want to remind the council and the city that the charter amendment will, the proposed charter amendment, will be on the ballot on November 5th, and the city cannot take a position on this proposal, and the city can’t spend any money either, other than to inform people about the language, but not to take a position either way, it is not allowed.

Secondly, individual council members may speak their opinion if they wish, but no city funds can be spent to advocate on this matter.

There was an issue by the committee on this ballot proposal, sent me late Friday relative to the notice that Smith sent out, and when I saw it this morning, I looked at it and I realized that the notice that Smith sent out on Friday referred to the Historic District and not the Historic District Commission, so the objection was that it’s not, it wasn’t accurate, that we’re not talking about changing the Historic District, we’re talking about possible changes in the Historic District Commission and its governance, so Smith sent out today to the same place as he published this on Friday, a clarification that we’re talking about the Historic District Commission and not the Historic District, so hopefully that settles that, and there’s apparently an informational meeting tomorrow night at the library, it’s not run by the city either, but the person who requested, who objected to the language, which I hopefully would clarify now and clear it up, I just indicated that they should talk to Julie Meredith [Director, Clarkston Independence District Library] if they had information or they wanted to make a presentation or something, that Miss Meredith was in charge of the meeting and that she would be the person they’re getting in contact with. Wylie said OK, thank you. Ryan said if they want to. It’s an open meeting and it’s supposed to be for information.

Wylie said yes, and it’s from, it’s actually in our FYI, 6:30 to 8:00. We’ll talk about that next.

Wylie said anybody have any questions or comments for Ryan? Roth said not for – Wylie said about this issue.

Wylie recognized Roth for a comment.

Roth said yeah, yeah, I just want to make a couple comments. First of all, no one’s trying to eliminate or dissolve the HDC. I have spent actually quite a bit of time on this, and I have been out and talked to at least 50 people, gone door to door, just out of curiosity more than anything. And I was amazed at how many people have concerns and complaints about the HDC. The thing I think that surprises me the most, I actually also took it to our state rep, our county commissioner, I took it to Congresswoman McLean’s office last week, and all of the conversations keep circling back to why this has not been resolved in-house.

Roth said and I really wonder myself why it hasn’t. Why we can’t figure out, I mean, I remember from way back when Cousin’s case was going on and I would come in for council meetings and listen to the people that were going to assemble talking about how these people didn’t belong, we don’t like those people. The intolerance, I don’t really understand it, and I don’t think that that’s what the HDC is really trying to do. Unfortunately, I think you have a reputation that comes, maybe precedes you, and I don’t understand why, if that is not the case anymore, why there isn’t a way to resolve it.

Roth said although having spoken to the amount of people that I have, and most of them said they would be more than willing to come before the council and tell their experiences of what happened. I mean, I made records, took notes of all of it. I’ve got pages of things people had to say to me and I did not just go to people, I went to people’s homes I’d never met before. I didn’t know what I would encounter or how they would react to what I had to say, the questions that I had to ask them. I was just amazed. I don’t understand why given the nature of what the HDC is supposed to be doing, which is in all of our best interests, is to maintain the village. Roth said why there’s so much animosity and such angst among people and why it has to be like that. It’s beyond me. So, I mean I could tell you lots of instances.

Roth said Quisenberry had his glowing report of how well he was treated knowing that four doors down the road our neighbor Chris Moore, who was more than willing to come back and say more, you know, felt he had to go file a, he wanted to get a restraining order, you know, and he recorded that whole conversation in his yard. I don’t understand the reason for, if that’s the nature of what you’re doing or what the HDC is representing, why it has to be done like that.

(To Roth), Rodgers said I’m curious what, just curious. Roth said sure. Rodgers said like the case, some of the cases that you spoke of most of us know what those are. Roth said sure. For the people that, like, you didn’t know anything about, what, like what were the questions that you asked them? Like, were they?

Roth said first of all, I made sure that I had paperwork with me. I went for two reasons. First, I did the HDC signatures, and I made sure, I didn’t want anyone to sign if they didn’t understand. I mean there’s a lady that’s on Miller, her file still doesn’t, for some reason is lost, but she got a home through foreclosure and had never heard of an HDC, and this is where one of the members went through her garbage to pull out shards of glass. I, another lady I can tell you on Holcomb, three requests. She has a home in Ludington, they have a home in Florida. She had, I guess, told, called the HDC for meetings a number of times. She said it was very simple, she needed windows. They either couldn’t appear, or she had to, you know, she said I kept trying to get, just tell me what it is you want, and so on the third attempt she had told her husband if she couldn’t get an answer she was putting her for sale sign out in front of her house. You know, she, and she’s, it’s, this is not money with these people. I can’t, you know, when I think of what happened with the Cousins or, you know, Quisenberry being treated so wonderfully and Chris Moore being treated so poorly. He and his wife, both surgeons, and they are afraid to take their kids out in their yard.

Roth said those kind of unnecessary incidents, and maybe taken out of context, but even taken out of context, if you have two, I, the last, the pictures that they brought in of all the homes that were taken care of in the last quarter or whatever it is, a third of those homes are people who had complaints about the HDC. So, and I don’t think anyone has any horror, you know, that this is a really, it’s a good thing for our community and in most communities, it runs fairly well. So, I don’t understand why we cannot come to some kind of a  way of working together.

Wylie said anybody else.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said so, obviously we have this memorandum and then we have this meeting tomorrow. Is there a local spot where we can see what is going to be, like, what is included in this amendment? Or where can we find that? Wylie said I don’t know where we can find it. Forte said because on the ballot it’ll only have a little.

(To Forte), Roth said you’ve not, you’ve not read it. Forte said I received it a while ago. Roth said well, there are actually, I guess I call it three parts. There’s the actual amendment, there’s a summary, and there are a sheet of bullet points.

Rodgers said what goes on the actual ballot, like what will we read on it? Roth said I think it’s on – Ryan said just the question will. Although at Village Hall, where the election is, there will be a copy of the amendment posted on the wall or someplace. But I mean, they’re available and (to Smith), are they on the city website? Rodgers said but just the question, yes or no. Ryan said correct, yes. And shall this amendment be adopted? Roth said and I believe it’s titled something along Citizens for a Sensible Historic District, something along that line. But it will be one of the ballot issues and it’s a yes or no.

Roth said and actually, when I read it, and I have showed that to so many people, what the question, the real substance of the whole amendment is, comes down to consideration, accountability. (To an unidentified person in the audience), Wylie said we’re going to do council first. (Continuing), Roth said explanation of, you know, what it is that’s expected. It’s nothing, and I keep hearing people that they think it’s, you know, this group is trying to dissolve the HDC and that is absolutely not true. So unfortunately, things like that.

Casey said I’ve not seen it. What does it do? Roth said you have not. What it’s doing is asking the HDC to be more accountable in terms of how they function. (Unintelligible crosstalk.) Roth said and I am more than happy – (interrupting Roth), Casey said how does that accomplish through the ballot, what’s – (interrupting Casey), Roth said it refines their, the definition of how they operate. Quisenberry said the scope of their authority. Roth said thank you. Casey said say it again. Quisenberry said the scope of their authority. Casey said OK.

Forte said in what way. Roth said being more, to me, it’s explaining what it is that they want done. Being more considerate in how they’re dealing with people. Forte said we need an amendment. Roth said interesting, when I was talking to people like – Quisenberry made an unintelligible comment – (continuing), Roth said Congresswoman McLain’s office, all the conversations all circle back to why is this not being handled internally.

Rodgers said you know, when I read it, my, you know, and I think I voiced these concerns before, was that like, words like, you know, you have to use, maybe this isn’t exactly word for word, so please don’t quote me, but like more considerate or reasonable. Like so many of those words used in it just are so open to interpretation. So, it, like goes back to what Forte’s saying. It seems like, like, common sense, right? Roth said doesn’t it. That’s exactly like what it seems like to me. Rodgers said like how can we quantify common sense? There’s got to be like – (interrupting Rodgers), Roth said I guess I have my thoughts of when someone is approaching me, what I expect as being considerate. Rodgers said right, but (to Roth), I don’t know that everybody has those same thoughts. Roth said you don’t think, huh. Rodgers said yeah, that’s the problem. Like, so if that gets adopted, then, which we don’t have a choice, it’s on the ballot, so we don’t, it is what it is, but my concern is that if that gets adopted, or it doesn’t get adopted, I’m not sure yet, which I’d have to, I have to read it a bunch because it’s, there’s a lot. Roth agreed. Rodgers said how those terms are going to be quantified legally then, you know? Like there’s not a, like, reasonable means you have 24 hours to respond, or a week to respond, or the committee has to meet with you within a week. Like, I don’t remember that being in there. Like the quantification of what a reasonable time period is, or a considerate person would be, like those are hard to quantify.

Wylie said Forte has been waiting and recognized Forte for a comment. Wylie said go ahead. I think Quisenberry’s afterwards.

Forte said sorry, I have, like, a ton of questions, and I don’t mean to be disrespectful. I just don’t know some of these answers. Roth said I can send it to you. Forte said yeah, no problem. So how many votes does it need to get amend, like, added to – Wylie said the majority. Forte said the majority of our residents. Wylie said no, majority of the vote. One over. Quisenberry said to be adopted. Wylie said to be adopted, yes.

(To Quisenberry), Wylie said you got a question or comment.

Quisenberry said I do. I’m going to try to circle back and present an opposing viewpoint to my friend here. Roth said I would not have expected anything other than that.

Quisenerry said first off, a courtesy, being courteous, courtesy is a matter of somebody’s opinion and if they have dissenting opinions, the dissenting person very well may take the other person’s point as not being courteous. Just that’s human nature and even though there is no, nothing about discourteous. Dr. Moore, who lives right down from me, I do understand he had some issues as did the people in the tower house when they were building with the HDC and, but as far as saying, he’s afraid to have his family out in the yard. No, that’s not true. I go by there all the time. I see his two daughters. I buy eggs from them. Well, they’re not selling them this year but they’re out there. They want to play with my dog. They’re out there all the time and I’m interacting with them, so he’s not afraid and his wife, the other doctor, are not afraid to have their children out there in the yard so that’s not happening.

Quisenberry said everybody knows what my thought about the HDC is. It’s one of the main reasons why my wife and I bought in here is because the HDC is a guardian for keeping the homes in this area what we want them to be. If you’re walking around with a petition asking to restrict the powers, the authority of the HDC, asking people to sign it, then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that the manner in which it’s presented is not being presented equally fair. So, I’d be subject, I feel I would not be really putting a lot of credence behind people that are saying things like that.

Quisenberry said and finally the other thing is, is I think it’s disingenuous for you to come here and say 50 people told me this, all right. That’s hearsay and are we supposed to now believe that because I can say 100 people told me they like it, all right. If those people have this opinion, have them come here and tell us, but it isn’t right and fair to have somebody come here and present a position for everybody to hear us and anybody watching us at home to think that that’s gospel. It isn’t.

Roth said well, this is also isn’t a court of law, so I guess I didn’t need to bring in signatures you know if you say. Quisenberry said no, they did bring in signatures and that’s why it’s on the ballot. Roth said that’s correct. (To Quisenberry), Roth said but also with it the past tense was for the Moores, they said they were past tense. Quisenberry said not the way you presented it. Roth said well, past tense (unintelligible).

Wylie said OK, anybody else on council have questions or comments.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said so, sorry just to get back to it, like, I know we can’t as a city like advocate either side but like will this go out in advance? Is it being posted on, like, does it, like, some things have to be posted in the city paper if they’re going to be, like, changing things, like, if all the verbiage isn’t going to be obviously included on the ballot, like, how do people know about this other than, like, through Roth walking to their house, like, you know what I mean like.

Ryan said well, there’s an informational meeting tomorrow night. Ryan said yeah. Ryan said and you can, we can, I assume everybody had a copy of the petition on the ballot language but you should get that and look at it and make, you know, make your own decision so, I mean, it’s readily available, it’s like four pages, I think, the actual amendment. Forte said but it’s not like it has to be posted publicly. Ryan said well, no, it – Forte said yeah. Smith said we’ll make sure it’s on the website. [No voting information for the November election is currently posted on the city web site.] Ryan said right, and it’s going to be posted here at city hall for voting, but I mean it’s kind of late by then, so people should, it’s available, it’s, you know, available for people to look at.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

No additional comments from council.

Wylie said anybody else in the public.

Wylie recognized Michael Moon [a Historic District Commission member], for a comment. Michael Moon said thank you. Wylie said and I’m going to remind everybody you have three minutes to speak.

Michael Moon:

OK, just a few quick comments. Moon said hello and provided his name and address.

Moon said I believe that Jim Meloche when he was the chairperson of HDC, a few years ago, presented at the council, when he did his quarterly report, that he had gone back and looked at the statistics of who was pleased and who wasn’t, and he told me what he presented to city council at that time was that better than 95 percent of the applicants that appeared before us were pleased with the outcome, were pleased with their interaction with the HDC. I would wonder, I would think that the council would probably be very pleased if their interactions with the public were 95 percent or better pleased.

Moon said and also if someone is not happy, if they are not pleased with what the HDC has said, there is an appellate process, and several people who have been mentioned have gone through the appellate process, and I might state that ever since I have been with the HDC, those few cases that have gone through appellate process, some of them through several steps of appeals, the HDC has always been vindicated, the HDC has always come out being vindicated through the appellate process. So, if we are doing something really wrong then why, why is it that we’re always, we’ve always been vindicated, even before I’ve been on the HDC, my understanding is, although I’m not aware of the statistics for that, but my understanding was that they had always been vindicated before through the appellate process.

Moon said and lastly, if you have questions, if you are concerned, we welcome people to come to the HDC and see what, what we are doing. It is, these are not closed meetings, these are open meetings that anyone can come and see what’s, how we operate, and I know the mayor has come before, and we’ve welcomed her to, to those meetings, and you might, mayor, might be able to speak to that, but I know that you have in the past come (unintelligible).

Wylie said I have, yes, yes, thank you and that’s your three minutes time thank you Dr. Moon.

Wylie said anybody else in the public like to speak.

Wylie recognized Cara Catallo for a comment and said again, you have three minutes.

Cara Catallo:

Catallo said I understand, although I think that the council should have it too. This felt like a little ad for the people who want to get this proposal passed, and after having that moment of hearing how the council’s not going to take, you know, a stand on either issue or either side, it seems peculiar to then give the, like, I don’t, I didn’t, I should have recorded how long Roth talked, but I mean, to claim, I don’t think this is good for the community, I don’t know why people can’t work together, seems peculiar coming from the person who’s pushing this through as hard as it can. I go to the council meetings, I go to the historic district commission meetings that, nobody’s coming there saying, like, can we change things or how can we make this better. Someone with a seat at your table is the person that is largely behind a lot of this. She can’t claim to be, like, oh, I don’t really want this to happen because it’s, it’s just plain contradictory.

Catallo said I think that Forte brought up a great point. The entire proposal should be, like, there should be copies here for the community to get, not the shortened abbreviated version that’s just, like, we’re just trying to make them sensible, because this is a very serious thing. This is about ending the historic district. It ultimately would, because we wouldn’t match the historic district ordinance that the state recognizes, and we would lose pretty much all of our protection. We can pretend that that’s not the case, but it won’t get us anywhere.

Catallo said I think that this board should agree to have a special meeting to discuss the realities of what this would mean, just like you did for the marijuana proposal. Everybody got behind that, they were saying, like, I heard this, I heard this. Have a meeting where we talk about the real truths of the issue, and it’s broken down, and I think that the people in this community deserve to see a broken-down version that, that addresses the reality of what this would do to our community, because it’s serious. Claiming that you go, and you talk to everybody, and I talk to these people, that people, doesn’t mean anything. It means what we, like, I have talked to plenty of people who think that we deserve protecting this really special place. It’s an amazing place. I wish everybody agreed to it, but this is a very extreme measure. There could have been like an ordinance change. There could have been other ways if you wanted to address, like, let’s be nicer, but, like, feelings, I can’t believe that feelings are going to be on our ballot. I just think there’s something just wild about this, and it’s, it’s not as simple as Roth is trying to make it out to be because nobody’s come here.

Catallo said you’ve reapplied, like, people who’ve come before you to get re-upped on the HDC. Nobody’s standing up saying like get him off. I think that this is very serious, and this group should have a special meeting to discuss this and to discuss what you’re going to tell the community, so it isn’t just somebody who’s trying to get this passed walking around saying it’s just to make everybody nicer. We just want people to be nice. There should be copies here, not just I’ll send it to you, Forte, because I feel like there’s been a lot of misleading in this community and it’s time it should stop.

Wylie thanked Catallo.

Wylie said anybody else in the public like to make a comment or question.

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon [Michael Moon’s wife and chair of a committee that is considering expanding the historic district].

Nancy Moon:

Nancy Moon said I think it’s best everybody comes tomorrow. The two speakers are spectacular. We all know Ron Campbell, he’s right here from Oakland County. Janet Kreger is top notch with what the state is actually going to say, and what they can say are the benefits of having our historic district, and I think everybody needs to hear it and then go back and decide what works for you.

Wylie thanked Nancy Moon.

Wylie said anybody else have a comment.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment.

Chet Pardee:

Pardee said yes, thank you. So, fight the blight on North Main is something that I felt very strongly about, and I invited Meloche and Smith, it’s probably been five years ago now, to stand in front of two residences on North Main that were not in very good condition. (Discussion between Evelyn Bihl and Nancy Moon while Pardee was talking.) (Continuing), Pardee said I raised the question, raised the issue with Melissa [Luginski, HDC member] about whether or not this was destruction by neglect, and she said no, it was really a code issue, and I think we all know where we are on code enforcement. We’re in the same spot that we were several years ago. Anyhow. So, I have difficulty with the historic district taking care of the buildings that are in fact historical, historical.

And it also gets to be a city issue. Talking about the red house, that if you look on the north side of the building today it’s exposed because the people who live in the Miller house, have taken down their hedge and so now what you see is probably 20 years of white siding.

Rodgers said so, I’m confused. What does that have to do with the HDC? Like where does the HDC come in? Because I think that the HDC has a responsibility to protect the homes that are historic. Forte said that’s maintenance. That’s, like, that’s under our ordinance. Rodgers said they don’t really have any guts to do that. Like, I don’t mean, like, guts, like, fortitude. I mean, like, they don’t have anything, like, what are they going to do? Like, fix your house, and then no I won’t. OK, like, they don’t have, they can’t, like, fine them or you know what I mean? Like, how do you propose they do that, if you have an idea about how the HDC should do that, or should they have that power? Quisenberry said I thought our code enforcement people can write tickets. Forte said yeah. Rodgers said yeah, no, I’m talking about the HDC. He’s saying the HDC. Forte said you’re right.

Pardee said I first invited Meloche and Smith to look at the two homes. One was 180. It got painted burgundy. If you look at the south side now, it’s got paint peeling also and they have it on the outbuildings. Go two doors down, and this is the building that’s adjacent, 148, where Morgan’s is, where the petroleum spilled. So, he’s not been able to take care of his home in at least five years, and we’ve kind of gone back and forth. I mean I tried to make it a HDC issue five years ago. Forte said yeah, let’s not publicly shame people for their houses in this meeting. Like, we don’t know his financial situation or anyone’s financial situation.

Wylie said let’s keep it, right now, this is still Pardee. I gave you a few extra seconds because I got some other people. Pardee said I’m finished. Wylie said OK, thank you.

Wylie said is there anybody else in the public who would like to speak on this issue.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry.

Quisenberry said I think, Mr. Pardee, what you were talking about is more maintenance, and more maintenance, and I’m not positive if the HDC is primarily responsible for renovations, improvements, those types of things and not maintenance. And I think what you’re talking about is a maintenance issue. Different from – (interrupting Quisenberry), Pardee said there was this discussion with Meloche about destruction by neglect, which I think is a technical term on the historic side of things. And we shouldn’t want that to happen. Quisenberry said sure, of course we shouldn’t. All right. But is it up to – (interrupting Quisenberry), Pardee said Meloche’s concern was the shakes. What kind of condition are the shakes in? And he said these are really great shakes because of their size. Wylie said OK. Pardee said and so, for five years, it’s been degrading, and we haven’t been able to do anything at the code enforcement end. So, when we talk about what on the HDC, how do they work on handling – (interrupting Pardee), Wylie said we need somebody to take care of that. OK, thank you. Pardee said you’re welcome.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

No comments.

Wylie said anybody else in the public.

No comments.

Wylie said OK, we’re going to, that was Item #6. I got a lot on Item #6.

Agenda Item #7 – FYI: (Video time mark 0:35:54):

Wylie said we’re moving on to Item #7, FYI, and we’ve got two.

Item #7a: Understanding Clarkston’s Historic District (Video time mark 0:35:59, page 5/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said Understanding Understand Clarkson’s Historic District, I think it’s supposed to say Historic District Commission. And this is a meeting tomorrow night, Tuesday, August 27^th, 6:30 to 8:00 p.m., the Clarkston Independence District Library, the community meeting room. It includes an introduction, a brief history and tour of the Clarkston Historic District website led by Julie Meredith, the library director, a presentation by Ron Campbell, preservation architect, economic development and community affairs, I think that means for Oakland County. Is it Oakland County? An unidentified person said yep. Historic District survey update from Nancy Moon, our committee chairman of the Historic District survey, and a presentation by Janet Kreger, founding member and past president of Michigan Historic Preservation Network. That’s tomorrow.

Item #7b: Fill the Boot 2024 (Video time mark 0:36:45; page 6/69 of the council packet)

Wylie there’s also another FYI. Fill the Boot 2024, Independence Firefighters Local 2629, September 13th and 14th from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Main and Washington. Looks like two locations. Main and Washington, Sashabaw and Maybee from 6, oh, oh, then from 6:30 to 9:30 at Clarkson High School. Three locations. And looks like they’re collecting for muscular dystrophy. Yeah, it’s to benefit muscular dystrophy. So, that’s a, looks like a worthy cause for the firefighters.

Wylie said anybody else have any FYIs.

No comments.

Agenda Item #8 – City Manager’s Report (Video time mark 0:37:19):

• • City Manager Report for August 26, 2024 (page 7/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said moving on to item number eight. We have pictures on our city manager report tonight. (To Smith), Wylie said anything you want to say.

Smith said no, I don’t think I have anything else to add. I know that we did want at some point and maybe this is the, I’ll take my opportunity to speak and turn it over to Evelyn [Bihl, deputy clerk] to give you a quick update on elections. Wylie said OK. Smith said I don’t have that on the agenda, but I think it is important that we, from now to election, given that, given that we don’t have a clerk, we’re going to keep you updated on everything that we’re working on. Wylie said great. (Smith made an unintelligible comment.)

Bihl said good evening. I’m going to kind of read it because I don’t want to interpret it incorrectly. The Oakland County Election Division requested the number of ballots today for the November 5th election. So, we requested 400 folded in ballots, absentee ballots. And we requested 450 flat ones, so when people come in here and vote. So, we have a total of 850 ballots coming in, and we have approximately 850 voters. That’s how they gage it by. I tried to get a few more, but they say you have to kind of gage it by within 50 brackets of your total. So, like, if we have 820 voters, we can get up to 850 ballots. That’s how they do it. Wylie said OK.

Per the state senior election expert in Oakland County Election Division, the write-in names will not be posted in the voting area. Voting booths are sent in with the AV [absentee voter] ballots when mailed. It is considered a form of campaigning. So, that will not happen. That does not mean we can’t put it on our website, the write-ins. We can do that.

Bihl said due to the write-ins for council members on the November 5th election, Oakland County Election Division will receive a tally listing of all the voting information at the end of the election day. The votes for Erica Jones will have a total number on the tally. However, the candidates that are write-ins, we have to send that information to the Oakland County Election Division. They will do the proofing of the names, written, correct last name or first name written, and they’ll verify that name is accepted, how they wrote it pertaining to their last name or first name. Then they will determine and ratify it and certify the election, and then they will contact us. I don’t know how long that will take, but they will be tallying all write-ins. So, we’re going to give them a whole big, long list, and they’re going to go one by one, all the handwritten names in. So, they’ll take care of that. So, we won’t have anything to do with it. The only number that we’ll know how many votes they got would be Erica Jones. Maybe she got 20 votes. We will know that that night. We can let you know that.

Bihl said Michigan Secretary of State Office has posted on the Facebook page and a few other areas I was looking that it’s a voting alert that the State of Michigan, starting August 23rd, you can request an absentee ballot for the November 5th election either online, by mail, or the local clerk’s office. And we do have the forms here. And then there’s a website, michigan.gov/vote, that they can go to.

Bihl said we do need election workers. If anybody’s interested in election working, let us know, because you do have to have some training.

Bihl said the last thing is the deadline to run as a write-in candidate. Those forms are due the second Friday prior to the election at 4 p.m., prior to 4 p.m. I believe that date is October 25th. I double-checked with a couple people, and we seem to come up with the same date.

Bihl said so, I will give you an update every time we get more information on what we’re doing, so we can stay in line with the election.

Wylie said can I ask you a question? And I know you may not know this. Is it true that write-in candidates’ names have to be written exactly as – (Bihl nodded affirmatively) – Wylie said OK. Bihl said yes. Now, I do know that when we had the one with Rogers and Rodgers, they, Oakland County, approved that. They approved those to be okay. Wylie said so, R-O-G-E-R-S or R-O-D-G – (interrupting Wylie), Bihl said so, if the first name was good, the last name either had an S on it or didn’t have an S or had a D in it, but they determined it. Wylie said they determined it. Bihl said yes, they determined it. Wylie said so, W-Y-L-I-E and W-I-L-E-Y, who knows what they’ll say. Bihl said and it might be if your first name and that last name. Wylie said OK. Bihl said I have an example, so I’ll pull it out on one of the canvassers’ worksheets. I’ll pull it out how they look at it. Wylie said all right, thank you.

Wylie said anybody else.

Wylie recognized Quisenberry for a comment.

Quisenberry said thanks for the information, but I don’t know if I missed it. When do the absentee ballots get mailed out? You gave us the date of when we have to request it by, but when will they get mailed out? (Bihl made an unintelligible comment followed by unintelligible crosstalk.) Wylie said September 16^th, 15^th, 15^th, something like that. Bihl said September 21^st or 26^th, somewhere around there, but I will get that to you. (Quisenberry made an unintelligible comment.) Bihl said I was just working on the end of August. I don’t want September to come here yet. Wylie said we appreciate what you’re doing. Forte said yeah, thank you.

Wylie said anybody else on council have a question or a comment.

(To Smith), Rodgers said I have a quick question, not about elections. What happened to that, the cone in the middle of Main Street? It was, like, smashed down. Bihl said (unintelligible) ran it over. Rodgers said so, should we re-up that whole talk about, I was actually sitting at Honcho – (unintelligible comment from Wylie) – (continuing), Rodgers said Friday night and literally saw a person almost get smashed. Somebody was, you know, flying down there. And then when I drove down, I think it was Sunday morning or Saturday morning, and that was completely smashed. Like, should we look at that again? Should we do something? Should I bring up the whole flag thing? Or is it something that now that we’ve had our warning sign smashed that MDOT [Michigan Department of Transportation] might be, because something’s going to happen. We have far too much traffic right now. I mean, maybe five years ago we didn’t need it. Ten years ago, we didn’t need it. But with 75 closed and the roundabouts all closed, it’s constant traffic here. And literally this person almost got killed.

Smith said no question there’s a significant increase in traffic in town due to all the I-75 traffic construction. No question about that. MDOT does not consider that an issue. That’s just a very temporary situation. My appeals to MDOT have not gone well. Each time they say that there’s not enough evidence to warrant any kind of signal, it’s just a pedestrian-activated signal.

So, I did approach them. I’ll have to follow up. I did approach them about your, you know, flag idea, and they said we were going to investigate it because it is still a roadway, so I was trying to gain their approval. I don’t know where that landed, and I’ll have to follow up on that to see if that was approved. But in the last week, both the sign, the one on Main Street and actually the one on Depot, which was, a resident donated that sign out of their own pocket, it was run over. And not just bumped, it was literally run over. We found it once down on Dixie Highway. We went and got it, fluffed it back up and put it back in place, and it wasn’t a week before it had been hit again. So, there is somebody that’s driving an old car that they don’t care about and just running these down intentionally. So, that’s a little disturbing in itself. But we’ll work on it. (Roth made an unintelligible comment.) We’ve got the sign on Main Street back up and repaired and replaced today, so it’s back up and in operation. But I know your point. Let me find out where you stand on the flags. Rodgers said OK, thanks.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions or comments for either, the regarding the city manager report or for Mrs. Bihl’s amendment.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said if you want to volunteer for the election, do you have to live in the city? Wylie said no. Forte said OK.

(To Quisenberry), Wylie said do you have something. Quisenberry said no.

(Nancy Moon raised her hand.) Wylie said hang on a second. I always get council first and then the public.

Wylie said anybody else on council have questions or comments for city manager.

No comments.

Wylie said no, OK.

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon for a comment.

Nancy Moon said I, like Rodgers, walk the community a lot, and it’s, between the speed and people just ignoring whatever is out there, I have come close to being hit three or four times, to the point that someone came out of their car and came up to me and said, are you OK? Because it was literally inches. So, you know, I’m with you. We need to do something.

Wylie said anybody else in the public.

Michael Moon said I might add that she, what she’s not saying is that she told me that in some of those instances, the drivers yelled at her. Nancy Moon said yes. Michael Moon said she was in the place she should have been. They were in the wrong, and they yelled at her, get out of the way.

Nancy Moon said so, I’m with you. We need help on that issue.

Quisenberry said those are the people we should be targeting to be more kind. Forte said there you go. I’ll write an amendment for that.

Wylie said anybody else in the public, questions or comments about city management report.

Forte said no, thank you.

Wylie said thank you.

Agenda Item #9 – Motion: Acceptance of the Consent Agenda as Presented (Video time mark 0:47:07):

• • 07-22-2024 Final Minutes, regular city council meeting (page 8/69 of the council packet)
  • 08-01-2024 Final Minutes, special city council meeting (page 10/69 of the council packet)
  • 08-12-2024 Draft Minutes, regular city council meeting (page 12/69 of the council packet)
  • 08-26-2024 Treasurer’s report (page 14/69 of the council packet)
  • 08-22-2024 Revenue and Expenditure Report for the Period Ending 07-31-2024 (page 15/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said moving on to Item #9, our consent agenda, which is in the packet. It includes the final minutes of the July 22, 2024, regular meeting, final minutes of the August 1^st special meeting, draft minutes of the August 12^th regular meeting, and the treasurer’s report from August 26, 2024. And I need a motion and then a second from council.

Motion by Forte; second Rodgers with a D.

Wylie said any discussion or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said questions or comments from the public.

No comments.

Motion to accept the consent agenda as presented passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said OK, so it is adopted.

Agenda Item #10, Unfinished Business (Video time mark 0:47:53):

Wylie said Item #10 is unfinished business.

Item #10a – Motion: Acceptance of the City Manager’s 2024 Performance Review (Video time mark 0:47:56; page 25/69 of the council packet):

• • Motion – Acceptance of the City Manager’s 2024 Performance Evaluation (page 25/69 of the council packet)
  • Annual Clarkston City Manager Performance Evaluation 2024 (page 26/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said we’ve got first a motion, acceptance of the city manager’s 2024 performance review. Give me a minute to get to that. OK.

(Wylie read the motion.)

Wylie said and I will need a motion and a second from council members to accept the city manager’s 2024 performance evaluation as submitted.

Motion by Rodgers; second Lamphier.

Wylie said and discussion from council. Or questions.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said I just want to go on record and say that I think the city manager is viewed with respect. So, three out of three for me, Jonathan. I don’t know if that matters, but just so you know. Smith said thank you.

Rodgers said I do find it interesting, too, in the comment section, that one of the positives is that he attends the MML meeting regularly. Forte said Pardee’s like, not next year.

Wylie said any other questions or comments from council.

No comments.

Wylie said questions or comments from the public?

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said I encourage, for the coming year’s performance that there be, number one, among council a discussion of priorities, and, number two, agreement with Smith on what the objectives should be. Wylie said yes. Yes, you’ve made some comments. I actually got a very informative e-mail from Mr. [Cory] Johnston also on some ideas to include in the future. And I think people in council made some excellent recommendations last time. So, we certainly have a lot. And I’ve communicated with Derek Warner, and I don’t think I’ve talked to Casey about it yet, that perhaps we as a group, that original subcommittee, meet and start looking at what additions can be made. So, for next year, it would be ready for whoever’s on the committee next year.

Quisenberry said who’s Mr. Johnston? Wylie said he’s a former resident of Clarkston, Cory Johnston. A very involved former, he was on city council, too. And he was chair of the Historic District Commission at that point.

Wylie said OK. So, we’ve got a motion and a second. Everyone in council, everybody who, no, I can’t think of it. Ryan said all in favor.

The motion to accept the city manager’s 2024 performance review passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said and we are adopted.

Item #10b – Resolution: Five-Year Office Copier Lease Renewal (Video time mark 0:51:23):

• • Resolution – City Office Copy Machine Lease Renewal (page 33/69 of the council packet)
  • 08-14-2024 – Email from Tiffany Signorello, Ricoh, to Greg Coté, Treasurer, Re: Lease and Copy Costs (page 34/69 of the council packet)
  • Ricoh Order Agreement (page 35/69 of the council packet)
  • Ricoh Master Lease Agreement (page 43/69 of the council packet)
  • Ricoh Product Schedule (page 48/69 of the council packet)
  • DocuSign signed document (page 50/69 of the council packet)
  • Consumer Disclosure (page 52/69 of the council packet)
  • Toshiba Proposal (page 54/69 of the council packet)
  • Applied Innovation Proposal (page 56/69 of the council packet)
  • Ricoh IM C2510 With Internal Finisher, Proposed Cost (page 58/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said the next thing under unfinished business is a resolution, five‑year office copier lease renewal. And this is something we talked about at our last meeting, and some members brought up some good points about the cost, continuing cost.

(To Smith), Wylie said do you want to talk about this? Smith said sure. It was questioned whether or not there could be a price increase during the five‑year life of the contract. And we talked with the representative from Ricoh, and they said absolutely not. There will be no change during the life of the contract. That is a lock‑in price of $86.97 per month, plus you know, plus black and white pages (unintelligible). Those charges are all spelled out here in the agreement. But they made it very clear.

Smith said and upon rereading the term, I see what she means. First of all, this is her email. It says it’s a fixed contract, so the cost per copy will remain the same for the duration of the contract. So, this is a five‑year, 60‑month contract, so it will not change. But down here at the bottom of the first page of the agreement, there’s a second page, there it is. Under post‑term escalation, the rate at which the service pricing will increase after the fixed or initial service term. For example, if your fixed service term is 36 months, ours is 60, but if it was 36, then there would be the possibility on the 37th month in this example, it could go up. But she made it very clear in the term of the contract, which is in five years, there will be no pricing increase. So that $86.97, which is spelled out here in the resolution, will not change.

Forte said OK, I’ll make the resolution.

Wylie said let me read it first, because we have to have that.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

(To Forte), Wylie said you’ve resolved this, and we need a second. Second Roth.

Wylie said any discussion from council members.

No comments.

Wylie said any discussion from the public.

No comments.

(To Smith), Wylie said we need a roll call on this issue, or on this resolution.

Lamphier, Quisenberry, Roth, Casey, Forte, Rodgers, and Wylie voted yes.

Wylie said so, the resolution is adopted.

Item #10c – Resolution: Sanitary Sewer Pipe Repairs in the West Alley (Video time mark 0:55:51):

• • Resolution – Sanitary Sewer Pipe Repairs in the West Alley (page 60/69 of the council packet)
  • Pipeline Management Co., Inc. Quotation ($121,052.04) (page 61/69 of the council packet)
  • Cash Summary by Bank from 07-01-2023 – 07-31-2024 (page 65/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said next on our agenda is resolution. Sanitary Sewer Pipe Repairs in the West Alley. Let me get to this page. A lot of paperwork on this. There it is. OK. This is the resolution.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said before we get into a discussion, let’s get somebody, make the resolution in a second, and then we can do a discussion. Would anybody like to resolve?

Rodgers resolved; Casey second.

Wylie said OK. Discussion from anybody on council.

Wylie said I have something. I’m just a little, I think I know what it’s trying to say. That very last line, this number three, utilize the city’s sewer billing system to recoup the $215.01 from each residential equivalent unit [REU], or four quarterly payments of $53.75. Does that mean we have to decide which way we’re going, or people get a choice, or I guess it kind of confuses me.

Smith said the thought is that it would be divided into four payments, four quarterly payments. So, over a year’s time, the $215.00 would be spread over four billing cycles. Smith said so, it equates to $53.75 per REU. Wylie said OK. So, a normal household is one REU. If you have a business with multiple bathrooms and sinks and kitchen and whatnot, they may have more than, they will have more than one REU. But for a residential home, it would be $53.75, plus their water billing or their sewer billing for that quarter, which is $128.00. Wylie said OK. So, it’s not an either-or. So, it’s always getting a choice, and it’s not the city’s going to still decide, this is how it’s being broken down.

Quisenberry said so, that word or. Wylie said I guess it was the word or, is this word confusing? Quisenberry said yeah, maybe it should say consisting of four quarterly payments. Wylie said yeah, I like that better. OK.

Smith said so, this recouping of the cost was something that we did a couple years, three years ago, with the O-Mac charge, the big Oakland-Macomb interceptor drain repair that was down on 8 Mile in Warren. All the communities had to pay for that. Ours was about $98,000. And we didn’t have the money in our sewer rainy day fund, if you will. So, we had to recoup that. We borrowed from ourselves, and then we recouped it and paid ourselves back. The same is true here. We have some excess rainy-day funds, if you will, in our water fund. Our sewer fund does not have any. [At the August 12 city council meeting, Smith said there was $50-$55,000 in a “sewer rainy day fund.”] There are monies in the account, don’t get me wrong, but we had to cover it, be prepared for the next sewer bill. So, we pay a sewer bill, and then we get payments in from all the residents. And you have to have some flow in that money. I can’t take it right down to zero because you’ve got inbound and outbound payments. So, that’s why we feel we can borrow from the water fund to make this payment, but then we’ve gotta, we have to recoup our money back. So, Coté and I have talked about this at length, and he feels strongly that we need to recoup those monies.

Wylie said I have another question, and maybe this isn’t the time to have this discussion, but it looks like the sewer fund is funded just to cover the costs. Is it time to maybe consider to start upping how much money we keep in the sewer fund because things are happening? It looks like there may be something else coming down the road with this other issue. Smith said the Oakland-Macomb interceptor drain repairs are by no means done. I’m told those will continue for the next 15, 20 years. That’s a large upgrade that’s going to take place, it’s almost like, you know, death by a thousand paper cuts. It’s going to keep coming, and so we need to be prepared for that. But right now, this is the charge that’s in front of us, and we have to address it. Wylie said yeah.

Smith said the, I think the bigger concern for me right now is, and I’ll be on site when they dig this excavation, and it’s the quality of that alley. It may just not be conducive for truck traffic. There’s some pretty big trucks that go down that alley, and the fact that both breaks, the only two breaks we have in the city, are both in that same little stretch of roadway. It makes me think that it’s not a good foundation underneath the road and that the road is actually pressing down on these sewer pipes, which are 10, 12 feet down. So, it’s concerning. So, we’ll address that when we get the excavation. It may be something that we need to address and have some more stable subgrade brought in so that a truck going down the road isn’t actually pushing the pipes around that are 12 feet underground. Wylie said right. Smith said if it’s all this mushy sand or peat or fill, that could happen.

Wylie said this is not my original idea. Somebody wondered how long this repair is going to take and what are we doing about truck traffic. The Fed, Rudy’s, if they’re up and operating by then, people need that alley. Smith said well, that’s the urgency of bringing this forward to you tonight is that we want to get started on this immediately. Certainly, we don’t want to be doing this in the winter, whether or not when Rudy’s is open as well. Not that that’s our only concern, but it is something to think about. They can complete the repairs, I’m told, in three to five days. Wylie said oh, OK. Smith said so, it’s not a long-term thing. Now, whether that includes asphalt, I don’t know, but they at least get it backfilled and tamped down so it would be ready for traffic. Wylie said OK.

(To Forte) – Forte said no – Wylie said you’re set with that.

Wylie asked Quisenberry if he had a question. No, he had a scratch. Quisenberry said yeah.

Wylie said anybody else on council, anybody else on council have questions or comments.

No comments.

Wylie said anybody in the public have questions or comments about this resolution.

Wylie recognized Richard Bisio.

Bisio said I’m a little confused about how this is going to work. When you talked about it last time, there was a $50,000 CD [Certificate of Deposit], I believe it was, in one of the water and sewer funds, and then you had the recovery from Independence Township of $96,000. That was, I don’t know if we’ve gotten it yet, but it’s certainly on the way, and my impression from the last meeting was that would cover the cost of the $121,000 repair here, and there wouldn’t be any need to increase the sewer bills. Has something changed since then?

Smith said no, that’s a good question. So, the $50,000 that’s in the CD, but it’s very liquid, so it’s very capable of drawing that out. Coté did not, on his further analysis, he did not feel that was going to be nearly enough, and it would complicate things dramatically. His feeling was, let’s leave that where it is, in the sewer or rainy-day fund, and do this separately. As far as the money, the refund, if you will, from the overbilling of police and fire services, we haven’t seen that, and I don’t know when we will see that. We need to get started on this now. If we see that here in the next couple of months, it would be council’s prerogative to apply that to this and stop the, this billing, but we have so many other things going on right now. We just thought, let’s let that money come in when it does, and when it does, we’ll bring it to council, and council can decide. Maybe it’s a finance committee side discussion first to decide how those monies will be utilized in the budget. I don’t think we would just leave them in the fund balance, but that would be up to the finance committee to review.

Bisio said does the $121,000 have to be paid up front before they do the work, and if so, where is that going to come from? Smith said it will come from the water fund. Those monies are available in the water fund today. It does need to be paid up front, or within a day or so of the start of the work. It’s pretty much right up front, or you’re looking at an 18% annual. They will finance it at an 18% annual. We just didn’t think that (unintelligible). Bisio said I see. So, the increased sewer fees will replenish the money that comes out of the water fund? Smith said yes, correct. Yes, you’re right.

Wylie said thank you, Mr. Bisio, and thank you for reminding me about the $50,000 CD. I forgot about that. So there still is money that’s available for sewer repairs. Smith said it’s just there was a small, mid-charge that came in for $12,000. We didn’t even mention it. Well, it was in one of the treasury reports, but we didn’t even consider going to the residents for that. That’s the kind of thing that those, when these smaller ones come in, they’re not all big, you know, $100,000, $200,000 charges. There was one that came through for $12,000. Wylie said that’s the Oakland-Macomb interceptor, OK. Smith said so, there have been some that we’ve just paid out of the sewer fund rather than doing something more elaborate like we’re doing here. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said anybody else have questions.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said yes, is the pipeline company considering putting anything stronger in place of the broken sewer pipes? Smith said they’re putting a concrete pipe with ferrous clay, so it is stronger, yes. And I mentioned, there’s a bullet point here in the whereases, that they are recommending some other rehabilitation, they call them. So, rehabilitation is not a replacement. It’s a liner, essentially. So, they can do that all robotically without excavating, so it’s a much more reasonable price. The question still comes down, whose responsibility is that? And I’m trying to, in Dave McKee’s absence, I’m trying to find out who at the Township is going to answer that question for me. Is that covered under our maintenance agreement or not? Wylie said is he permanently gone or just, Dave McKee, is he permanently gone? Smith said it’s unclear. I’m not really able to speak to that. Wylie said OK.

Wylie said and by the way, the quote from this pipeline management company is included on the agenda.

Wylie said anybody else have questions or comments on this issue, on the resolution.

Wylie recognized Pardee for a comment.

Pardee said I have one more comment. I’m not sure what the Dave McKee reference was, but it reminds me that we haven’t had McKee or somebody from the Township here for more than a year. And I recall when he was last here, he was talking about a $60 billion. Smith said that’s the big one that’s still coming. Pardee said right, and so we haven’t had him. I’m wondering, do we need an update that lets us plan sooner than the knife blade? Smith said yeah, we do. Adam Klein [spelling?] is temporarily filling in, but he’s not, I don’t think he’s up to speed. No disrespect to Klein, but I just don’t think he’s up to speed where McKee was.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said in our report that they did when they took the camera through, do we have any idea how much of the pipe is clay versus concrete? Smith said I think the whole West Alley is clay. Forte said OK. Smith said the brownish clay pipe. (To Forte), Wylie said you’re just asking about that particular, OK.

Wylie said OK, so we have a resolution, which means we have a vote, and Smith, if you would take a roll call for the vote.

Forte, Lamphier, Casey, Quisenberry, Roth, Wylie, and Rodgers voted yes.

Wylie said and the resolution is adopted. Thank you.

Item #10d – Discussion: Consideration of a Single Day Trash Service (Video time mark 1:11:43):

Wylie said moving on. We are still under Item #10, unfinished business.

Item #10d is a discussion, consideration of single-day trash service. And maybe, am I correct, Mr. Quisenberry, did you ask to bring this back on the agenda? Quisenberry said I did. Wylie said OK, do you want to maybe start this off?

Quisenberry said yeah, the last, we discussed this, I think, two, maybe three meetings and didn’t do anything with it, which was the decision of the council based upon what our options was at the time. But one of the points that we brought up is instead of a single trash hauler was the option of a single-day trash service. And that appeared to get some, it appeared, in my opinion, to get the support of several people on the council here. So, I thought, before we let this thing just sit and fester and go away, do we want to consider an option for council, not a resolution or a, excuse me, not a vote to the people, but the council to consider directing the city manager to look into and bring back to us a plan for a single-day trash service?

(Casey raised his hand.) Wylie said yes, sorry.

Casey said I’m opposed to it. With all due respect, it would have a neutral impact on the roads. I mean, instead of having the same number of trucks and the same number of haulers on different days, it would all be on the same day. So, I think it’s a neutral road impact, and that was one of the big selling points of a single hauler. Also, I’m concerned about the business disruption for the trash haulers. You tell them they have to be here on a certain day, it’s going to disrupt whatever their business model is now. And third, the noise that the trucks make is not going to go away, and it’s much less than other activities that we’re used to, such as commercial lawn services, which go on for hours, and weed whackers. The trash trucks come and go relatively quickly. So, for those reasons, I don’t think it’s a good idea.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

Wylie recognized Forte for a comment.

Forte said I’m just asking, so do you disagree with the idea of a single hauler or just a single day? Or are they two separate? Casey said I disagree with a single day. I think a single hauler is going to be problematic also, but that’s not the issue here.

Wylie said one of the things I liked about the single day is when Tony Detkowski was here, and he spoke about what happened in Ortonville, Brandon, I think, that when they, the village, I’m not sure if they’re a city or a village, but when they went to a single day, a number of the companies dropped out. And I believe he said only two companies could manage doing the single day, and it was himself and, I believe, Community. TNR and Community, I think he said, are the only ones. And, yes, and as far as business district, I think if we do it, it should be the same thing. I think what single haulers are doing is businesses can still contract for their own trash hauling. (To Smith), Wylie said I think that’s how you’ve talked, and (to Roth), Wylie said you’ve talked to more of those communities.

Smith said yeah. You don’t do the commercial, but I think when you say business effect, you were talking about the trash services themselves would disrupt their scheduling. And that’s why Detkowski was saying they somehow dropped out because, you know, they, Ortonville was their Tuesday. They just couldn’t accommodate that, right now, everyone had to be Thursday.

Casey said that reduces the competition. Smith said yeah.

Wylie said and that helps with the noise, and it does help with the streets. If only two companies can do, let’s say we pick Monday, and if only two companies can do Monday, then that just almost automatically reduces the number of companies that are servicing the community, which does decrease the amount of traffic on the road, which does mean, I think, less noise.

Wylie said anybody else.

Quisenberry said what, OK. Talking with the people in Ortonville, they have not been affected by any reduction of service or the process to allow trash pickup in their community. It may have been a competitive bid between five companies or whatever, and like Mr. Detkowski said last week, it dropped down to two because they couldn’t, but in a sense, that indirectly limits competition, but it’s a dropout of competition on their part, not by us. They choose not to because they don’t want to do, they can’t do it on Monday or Tuesday or whatever, and if we were going to look at it, we would, I assume, ask the potential bidders, if we do do it, which day might be best for you, so that we can try to, if it is going to happen, accommodate as many as we can before we get the bid out, so, but that’s the whole reason why. I just don’t like things hanging, and this was left hanging, so I thought let’s kind of just make a decision on what we want to do with this. If we want to look into it, we look into it. If we don’t, then I think this is going to go away for a while.

Wylie said you’re using the word bid, like people are bidding. Quisenberry said well, my guess is that the municipality, and this is what I think happened in Ortonville, is they said our trash pickup is going to be on Monday, which I think it is. Who of you trash people want to put in a bid for, well, you’re right, it wouldn’t be a bid because it’s all within the private person, so there is no municipal bid. Wylie said I just wanted to make sure you and I were talking the same thing. Quisenberry said what I meant to refer to was the fact that which day can you do, works best for you, and then decide which day we want it to be.

Wylie said Mr. Lowry brought this issue to us a month or more ago, and in many ways, I like the idea of reducing the traffic on our streets, especially big garbage trucks. I honestly don’t care that much if garbage is out on different days, but I didn’t like the idea of harming any of our local trash companies, and I didn’t like the idea of senior citizens, or those who are gone for six months of the year, having to pay for a full year. So, this does have the advantage of not having those two problems, so that’s why I do like the idea of investigating it further.

Wylie said council people, public, any questions or comments.

Wylie recognized Nancy Moon.

Nancy Moon said I have a question. Does the village accept bids and proposals based on lowest price or best practice? Wylie said we’re actually not talking about a bid, though. Moon said no, but if you were to put this out for a proposal, and you sent it to the three people to not count a single day, but, you know, pick the person, would you take best price, lowest price, or best practice? Wylie said well, you’d have to list what you’re looking for exactly and be specific, so if they can fulfill all those things, then it should be lowest price. Moon said so, the village does not use best practice? So, you don’t give any kind of preferential treatment to somebody within the village? Wylie said that’s correct. That’s correct. Yeah, that’s what we do.

Rodgers said but that’s not what we’re doing here anyhow, right? Wylie said right, we’re not bidding this out. Quisenberry said yeah. Wylie said and Mr. [Jim] Brueck, do you guys all want to get up? I don’t know if you’re all involved with this. You’re probably here for a bioswale. Roth said yeah, I would think.

Brueck stepped up to the podium and said to go back a bit, I thought the purpose was to try to eliminate the number of vehicles on the streets. That was the primary, because you’re destroying streets (unintelligible) and it costs money. So, when I first heard about this the other day, I had trouble getting my arms around, my head around that, because it sounded like just the opposite. You’d have more congestion on whatever day that was. It would be kind of a madhouse for a day, and then it would go away. But, you know, I have talked to neighbors, and what’s interesting and fascinating, I think, is that people love their carrier, and there’s three or four different carriers, and you talk to somebody about theirs, you go, you’re not taking mine away. Somebody else has the same thing, and I’m thinking, just pick up my trash. I don’t care who does it as long as I get the best deal. That’s what I’m going to go to.

Brueck said so, I guess it was interesting the conversation about if you reduce the number of carriers than a one-day or a two-day deal, you’ve got some interest, you know. But without that, I would certainly support the idea of a one hauler, and based upon, again, the input from different people I’ve talked to, they’re all capable people, capable organizations, and we’ll get the best features, if you want to call it that, of each of those companies, and make that part of the bid, make that part of the RFQ [Request for Quote], so that we get at least the best service we’re getting today, or maybe even better, maybe some added features that they can provide that are not out of the average business. So, I guess I would strongly recommend you not drop the idea of a single hauler. Wylie said OK. Brueck said thank you. Wylie said thank you.

(To Smith), Wylie said one pause. Did you have something you wanted to add after Mrs. Moon’s comments about the bidding process? Smith said only that, in general, just a generic response to your statement, is we do look at more than just the price. The price is probably 90% of the decision in most cases. That’s in our ordinance, in our purchasing agreement, our ordinance, it says that we will seek out the lowest price bid. But we do look at some of the soft issues as appropriate. So, it does come into play, but not, it’s not the primary. Ryan said lowest qualified bid. Smith said qualified is, yes. Ryan said it’s not just price. I mean, actually, you said it’s a big consideration, but it’s a qualified bid.

Quisenberry said but just so I understand, there is no bid, isn’t there? Rodgers said right. All this is, is we’re just saying – Wylie said we’re not talking about a bid. Quisenberry said yes. There is no bid at all on this? Wylie said correct. Ryan said just responding.

Wylie recognized Tom Lowry for a comment.

Lowry said yes, I’d like to agree with Mr. Casey on what his views are, and along with Jim Brueck. Again, if you have a single day, a lot of the trucks are having three trucks, one for regular garbage, one for yard waste, and one for recyclables. And that means six trucks. And right now, we’re complaining about the people on Main Street crossing. Now we’re going to have a minimum of six trucks, that’s just for two companies, that might be coming through there on one single haul day. But it seems like there’s a lot of people concerned about the little guy, you know, and having him lose business. And this is what business is. I mean, holy smokes, I had a small business, and I went up against bids all the time. Yes, some I would get, some I wouldn’t. It’s just survival of the fittest. But if somebody wants to keep the two small guys around, well, maybe we divide the house or the village in half, and TNR can take 200 homes, and Community can take the other 200 or whatever. We will always get a pushback from somebody. I mean, anytime there’s change, there’s pushback. But I’ll tell you what, the roads, we don’t need six or eight trucks, you know, throughout the week. You know, three should suffice. That’s all I got to say. And I’ll tell you what, just if the village can’t make a decision on this and push forward, I’ve talked to a lot of residents in my neighborhood, and, you know, they would like to go with a single hauler (unintelligible) my neighborhood.

(To Roth) Wylie said I think, you – Roth said our street always has, yeah.

Wylie said any other questions or comments from – yes, Cara [Catallo].

Catallo said Quisenberry said before we let it fester and go away, and he also said left hanging. This could have been brought to the people for the people to decide, and I don’t understand why it was decided that the residents of this community couldn’t have the opportunity to share their opinion on this. Everybody I have spoken to, with the exception of one person, I’m not going to do a universal thing, kind of like Roth does, one person did say he wasn’t sure about it. But everybody has said that they would prefer to have a single hauler. The idea that there’s some sort of solution of having the potential of nine trucks back up down, like, what is it, East Washington. I watched them. They have to back up because it’s a dead end. It just seems like it’s creating a greater problem than what we already have. These are 45-ton trucks. So, I just think that this is not a solution, but the solution is to go with single hauler. And I think if you had taken this to the people, like Mr. Lowry, or I don’t know if it was Mr. Lowry’s idea or Smith’s idea, then you would see that the community would prefer this because it’s better for our infrastructure, it’s probably going to be a reasonably better deal, and I don’t think we can act like people vacationing at their second homes are going to get dinged without our checking with somebody to see if that is the case. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else.

No comments.

Wylie said so, what do you want to do? Oh, I’m sorry. Wylie recognized Casey for a comment.

Casey said I live on East Washington, and there are three haulers that have contracts with various folks there, and all of them, well, no, and they’re on two different days. One of them is on two days. Almost all of them back down the road because they can’t turn around, and that’s really no big deal, whether you come forward or backward. And to me, it really doesn’t make any difference. To me, it’s less of a hassle than the constant noise of other activities, such as commercial lawn mowing. I just don’t see a benefit for a single hauler. Wylie said thank you.

Wylie said anybody else.

No comments.

Wylie said so, this was a discussion. Quisenberry said which we had. Wylie said which we had. Wylie said I guess we’re done with the discussion, then. So, somebody else can put it on the agenda for a motion at some point if you want to do this some other different way, but we’ve had the discussion.

Forte asked if it’s too late this time of year to get it on the ballot. Ryan said yes.

Agenda Item #11, New Business (Video time mark 1:27:53):

Wylie said OK, Item #11 is new business.

Item #11a – Resolution: Bioswale Installation Proposal (Video time mark 1:27:55):

• • Resolution – Bioswale Installation Proposal (page 66/69 of the council packet)
  • Bioswale Budget Estimate 2024 Update (page 67/69 of the council packet)
  • Photos (page 68/69 of the council packet)

Wylie said A, resolution, bioswale installation proposal. And that’s why you three are here. So, you guys want to speak about this? Well, actually, let me read the resolution first.

(Wylie read the resolution.)

Wylie said and would somebody on council like to resolve this resolution.

Resolution by Forte; second Roth.

Wylie said is there any discussion from anybody on council. Or questions.

Forte said how much money do we have in that budget. Smith said it roughly totals about $18,000 currently. Forte said perfect.

Wylie said anybody else on council.

Casey said are the sites identified. Wylie said I think we’d have to, I’ll let you guys answer that. Brueck said what was the question. Casey said are the 10 sites identified? Brueck said no. Wylie said there’d be what. Brueck said no, the short answer is no. And if the concept is approved, then we know where those sites are. There are some sites that are better than others, but obviously we need the homeowner to speak up and say, I’m interested, I’m willing to participate and be a part of it. So, it’s a give and take. I don’t think we can dictate to them, but hopefully, we can encourage them to participate.

Roth said but you do have spots selected. Brueck said I’m sorry. Roth said you do have spots selected, though, that would be – Brueck said no, not really. I just, two years ago, I went and identified all 45 sewer inlets in the village. So, I know where they are, but I haven’t, or the committee hasn’t, decided that the next 10 are going to be A, B, and C. Again, the whole idea is to promote this with the rest of the community or other homeowners, raise their hand and say, yeah, I’m interested for the right reasons and please consider me. And then we would evaluate their site and say, yep, you’re on, or sorry, next year, whatever.

Wylie said you guys have team talk.

An unidentified woman said the biophilic committee did not want to start approaching these 45 homeowners and offer some kind of cost share from the city without council’s authorization. So, we have not, we have the 45 sites listed, but we have not talked to any of them because it doesn’t seem appropriate to even bring it up to them without knowing how council feels. Wylie said good point.

Wylie said anybody else have questions or comments.

(To Wylie), Roth said you’re a big proponent. Wylie said I’m a big proponent. And it was great to work with the biophilic committee because they did all the work. I was actually sick then. I had COVID and I stood on the porch and – Roth said perfect landscaping. Wylie said and it’s beautiful. But the picture, the first picture is actually mine. Roth said I wondered if one of them – Wylie said yeah, this one is. It’s only a part of it. It goes out to here and here. Mine might be bigger than some of the others. A little bigger. Because I was trying to include something else. I’m sorry. But mine’s also older, so it’s filled in more. It’s had an extra year of growth because it’s over two years old now.

Forte said great picture.

(To Breuck), Wylie said is that your house, the second one? I wondered if it was your house. Breuck said it’s supposed to be a (unintelligible). Wylie said it’s what? Breuck said it’s supposed to be a TV. Roth said hey, there it is. There it is, right there. Breuck said overlooking Princess. Wylie said yes.

Wylie said OK, so we have a resolution resolved by Forte and seconded by Roth. And if there’s no more discussion, (to Smith), would you do the roll call, please? Smith said OK.

Rodgers, Roth, Wiley, Quisenberry, Lamphier, Forte, and Casey voted yes.

Wylie said thank you. The resolution is adopted. Thank you for coming. And hopefully find some good, happy homeowners who want to do this. Brueck said and if you know anybody, either yourselves or anybody else, please let us know. Lowry said we pre-do mine.

Item #11b – Discussion: Mill Pond Dam Update (Video time mark: 1:33:23):

Wylie said alright. Item #11b is a discussion on the Mill Pond Dam update. Is that going to be you, Smith? Smith said no, it was supposed to be Ryan (last name unintelligible), who I don’t know. Is he here? Oh, you’re not Ryan. Frank Schoebel said I’m not Ryan. I did talk to him. I did talk to him.

I’m Frank Schoebel, the (unintelligible) for the Clarkson Mill Pond. And I’m anxious to get some facts before everybody in the community, as I’m sure the community is. Ryan (last name unintelligible) is going to go two-person for a while. And I called Ryan because I’ve heard everything for months. And Ryan ‘s going on paternity leave now for six weeks. He’s going to have a little girl. So, I think that takes precedent over what we’re talking about. But anyhow. But they are working on it. He’s appointed someone else to pick up the slack, so to speak. And by the second week in October, Ryan is confident we will be able to sit down with some concrete numbers. For those that aren’t aware of this, this is stages.

Schoebel said we did the engineering study, and that’s complete. Now they’re going to come up with some numbers to complete the construction phase of this. And the first numbers came in, it was comparable to redoing the Hoover Dam. So, we don’t want to go that route. So, now they’re tweaking it substantially lower. So, when we have those, everybody will know, and we don’t have anything yet that’s concrete. But I’m sure they’re half of what was proposed, or more, of the initial. And the initial thing, just to give you some idea, was $2 million. And we don’t want a Lamborghini here. We need a Volvo or something to make this work. So, it can be done, and it’s going to get done. And then once we have the numbers, we have to go to the community, the stakeholders on the pond, and collect two-thirds of the signatures to go forward with this. So, we can’t do that until we have something to present to the populace. So, that’s kind of where we stand on that. And I’m confident we’ll get it done, but it’s just a slow process, because I’m as anxious as everyone else to get some action going on this.

Schoebel said what’s encouraging is that when they did the engineering, the hardcore borings and all the stuff that it takes to do this, all the conditions were favorable to this. The soil samples, everything. And the topography, everything. So, it’s going to come down to numbers, basically, and community involvement, and some education to the community of what’s happening and why it’s happening, the long-term effects and advantages to the community, the pond.

Forte said will that be covered by, like, if the residents are on the Mill Pond? Schoebel said well, we haven’t determined that yet. Some of it will. There’s also some grants. Ryan has said, we got a grant to cover the majority of the engineering studies that, his premise is that once they give you that preliminary grant, the next proposal is within the realm of reality, they usually will grant another sum of money. They won’t cover it all. So, there will probably be an assessment. And we’re hoping that the city and Independence Township would kick in a few dollars also. But we can’t even talk about that, because I don’t know the number of units. But the majority would be covered through a grant and the shareholders or the stakeholders of the pond. So, that’s kind of where we stand, guys.

Schoebel said so, any questions.

Forte said thanks for the update. Schoebel said thanks.

Wylie said I think, hang on, we got a couple questions. Smith has something. Smith said yeah.

So, the lake level study was something that was a big component of this. And do you have any idea what the finished water level should be and should always be, unless there’s a problem? Has that been finalized? Schoebel said no. Ryan has to go to court to do that. I think this is all tied together with the next step. And what we’re talking about is a legal pond level. And that will be filed in court. So whatever level is determined, that’s where it will be. The Water Resource Department controls the level. I don’t, you don’t. They come out and they monitor it once or twice a week or a day, whatever the precipitation is at that point. So, it takes all the guesswork out of all of this. Yeah.

Brueck said isn’t the level controlled by the spillway. Schoebel said no, the spillway is a, there’s two mechanisms to control the water level in the collection of Mill Pond. One is the, I call the dam. It’s that structure that juts out. And that’s a weir, it’s an archaic, well not archaic, but a historic thing that Henry Ford put in in 1941. And it’s basically a crank. It’s a T-bar. It sinks into this thing, and it raises and lowers the water. Now that could snap the next time it operates. But the spillway is the structure that goes under Main Street. That’s like an emergency. So, if the water level gets too high, unless you have a catastrophic rain, that will handle it. And it has handled it for maybe 90 years. Brueck said so kind of a self-control, self-control. Schoebel said but the goal is we want water to continue to go through Depot Park. Brueck said OK. Schoebel said so, that’s why the construction would allow water to continue to go through. But it would bypass the weir. The weir would be decommissioned. So hopefully we’ll have more information.

Rodgers said would the spillway still be in effect though. Schoebel said yes. They’re not going to do away with the spillway at all. It’s like I said. Rodgers said yeah, it’s a relief valve. Schoebel said if we had to start building an ark or something, we’d need a spillway.

Wylie asked Pardee if he had a question.

Pardee said yes. Upper and lower water height would be the same. Schoebel said well, if there’s water in the lower, there’ll be water in the upper. The problem with the upper pond is it wasn’t a pond. It used to be a river that was dredged out to sell lakefront property (unintelligible). And so that’s filled in now. It’s a retention basin, basically. But when the lower pond level goes down, down, down, there’s no water in the upper pond. When it’s at the level now, there is water in the upper pond.

Schoebel said so, it would behoove the people in the upper pond to get involved in this also. We’ve talked about it. I’ve given the upper pond residents three names of engineering firms and construction. And it would be, it would be, I’m going to say, a million dollars to dredge out the upper pond. And they, real simple, the people on the upper pond own the land under the pond, upper pond. The people on the lower pond do not own the land under the lower pond. We own to the water line, or whatever that may be. And you can see it on your deeds. So, it’s like an apples and oranges thing.

Schoebel said we’re trying to balance like a bowling ball and a tennis ball here. But when there’s water in the lower pond, the big pond, there’s always water in the upper pond. And we haven’t treated the upper pond. We treat it for invasive weed species. Our goal is not to make this a swimming pool. But you come down with your boats in the upper pond to treat the weeds. So, it needs to be assessed, you know, a hundred bucks a year or whatever it is. But we haven’t assessed them now for a couple years. If and when we get, you know, like now, you could probably get a flat bottom boat in there to treat, because there’s been no water in there. So, we may rethink this whole thing once this comes to fruition. But it’s not fair to them. And we used to, you know, have the geese round up once a year and take them to the spot. So, the Goosebusters can’t do that because of the avian flu. So, you can’t move feathered friends from here to there. Wherever they’re at, they’re at. They’re in Depot Park, the Mill Pond, Middle Lake, Deer Lake. So, it’s just, it is what it is.

Schoebel said so, like I said, we’re in a waiting game. But I think hopefully by mid-October, which that’s what I was told, we’ll have some more information for everybody here. And be happy to share what I have. Trust me.

Wylie said are both the residents in the upper Mill Pond and lower Mill Pond all part of your association. Schoebel said yes. There are 66 stakeholders. There’s 20, I think 25 in Independence Township. The rest are in the village. Wylie said OK. Schoebel said so, that’s kind of where we stand.

Schoebel said so, I want to get Independence Township involved in this too once we have something to talk about. We will have some.

(To Rodgers), Wylie said did you have a question there. Rodgers said no.

(To Pardee), Wylie said you have something else. Pardee said yes.

Pardee said so, we’ve got West Miller, redoing the road, in this year’s budget. But not the sidewalk. And I’ve seen in the HRC [Hubbell, Roth & Clark, the city’s contract engineers] proposal that we got two or three years ago, they had equalization pipe that I assumed was going under the road between lower and upper. And I’ve had some discussion with Smith about how can you redo the road without that equalization pipe? And how can you not do the sidewalks at the same time? Schoebel said I don’t know anything about that. Pardee said so, will the Oakland County people be able to help us with what’s required for the function.

Smith said well, I mean, it is something that was talked about way back. But Schoebel’s point is a really strong one, is that if there is water in the lower pond and it’s controlled and kept, the Water Resource Commission keeps it at that assigned level in the lake study, then if it’s always at that level, then there will always be water in the upper pond too and this issue just goes away.

Pardee said I agree with the concept, but the question gets to be how is that done. And there are disagreements in terms of whether or not the water is actually flowing through on the west-west end where the hunk of concrete is in the lower pond. Smith said I’m just saying it will be the same as it is today.

So, water flows through. But on a good day, when water is in the lower pond, then it’s not going to drain from the upper pond. It will stay there. (To Pardee), Schoebel said he didn’t know. Smith said we can ask the engineers that. I think we need some help from the engineers for what we’ll be doing west. (Unintelligible crosstalk.)

Wylie said I think that’s it. (To Schoebel), thank you very much for speaking up and speaking for Ryan, and I guess you spoke to Ryan.

Agenda Item #12, Adjourn (Video time mark 1:45:28):

Wylie said Item #12 is adjourn meeting. I need a motion to adjourn.

Motion by Forte; second Rodgers.

Wylie asked if there was any discussion.

No discussion.

The motion to adjourn passed by unanimous voice vote.

Wylie said and the meeting is adjourned at 8:45. Thank you everybody for coming.

Resources:

• • Link to video recording here 
  • 08-26-2024 City Council packet